1+1+1=1? What's Up with the Trinity?

Good Point, HugATree

Sunday Morning

Very good way of putting it. You can be three persons in one.

Let's all be that polite and don't call each other deceived or delusional, basic good manners, okay? Otherwise I could just say that's your delusion about the Bible-thumper weakening and becoming atheist. I have no way to validate that. And no, I haven't been deceived, changed churches, and so did my two oldest of five grown children. The three youngests are still holding on to a group that, as you said, want power, like a cult, call themselves a restoration movement, but I think are dwindling like the Quakers did, due to lack of any Christian empathy or love. So I understand where you're coming from, and you just have to look around for a group that's more compatible with your personality, and not look too hard for flaws because you might find them. They're only human. Only God is perfect, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. About which we never were taught and I don't claim to know much. Don't know if anyone does.

Hey, welcome to the club about the apostle Paul, you guys. Some of his commandments you have to wonder if Jesus Himself would have said ! For instance shunning the man who lived with his father's wife. I suppose there was nothing else to do, but the Quakers expanded shunning to include not-so-bad things too, right? I haven't completely researched this, but don't you think probably Paul's opinions "evolved" and got more and more Christian, "mellowed" in other words?

This being Sunday, why not try a new denomination today, and just don't commit to it for a long time, if at all, until you find one you like or can tolerate? Remembering that God and the church are totally different entities, not to be confused with each other. Church is just a place to try to reach God and thank Him for giving us our lives, not striking us with lightning when we get too big for our britches and ungrateful to Him. If you meet new people who become friends, fine, as an added bonus, but I'm always careful for a very long time.

In case I'm not articulating this well enough, let me try to rephrase.

The Godhead are perfect, unlike the very worldly church, and we should never confuse one with the other. Don't throw out the baby along with the bath water. As the African-American preacher on TV says, "Don't mess with God. He's got lightning and stuff."

They used to say in church, there are no atheists on deathbeds. That they always or nearly always seem to convert "just in case".

If I decide I can't help you feel better about God, separate from flawed churches, I'm out of here, but do not ever assume my faith wavered.

I learned to read using a childrens' Bible, sitting at the kitchen table spelling out words to my mother as she cooked. Even before the "Omen" movies and like that I seemed to have an intuition for things like that. When they made movies about our final confrontation with Satan in sheeps' clothing (he poses as one of the messengers of light, 2nd Cor. 11, but teaches hatred, in the house of his God, when God is love) it all seemed downright familiar, although I'd probably never read Revelation 12.
And the movies weren't very strictly By the Book. It was just the general idea. They didn't emphasize that Satan wages verbal war against saints, and causes deaths, probably malpractice as well as using the muslims as a "cover", Habakkuk 2. Yes, you could ask thousands and nobody would have unearthed these details that I have discovered, like archeology.

I get very impatient with their slowness. Very very frustrating. Even those who're on TV and making movies. BTW, I think some churches labelled the LeftBehind authors heretics. Our being kept from the Great Tribulation doesn't mean a Pre-Trib Rapture, but just protection like in Psalm 91. Meanwhile, the Bible certainly is the REVEALER OF SECRETS, but at church it's always just the same old same old, never venturing any farther into it. If you suspect some of the speakers are just into it for money, I couldn't argue that. I've said they're just human, not at all Divine. We have to be forewarned to make that distinction or may get offended a lot.

It's no skin off my teeth if you don't want to try a new place today and just see if you like it , and if it might enhance your life. I have lots of different places to worship, depending on how I'm feeling that day and whether I want to talk to anyone or be anonymous. It's your life.

Are we all married people, so we're not completely unable to understand the thing called love? You don't go into things like science with your wife or husband, and simple legit love makes everything more tolerable.
Loving and being loved, you can put up with the pride of some church people, or just don't get personally too involved with them.

 

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It doesn't stand up under scrutiny. If they're all the exact same being you'd be left with comments of the following nature:

"I am greater than I"

"I do not know when the end times are, only I know when the end times are"

and a whole host of other nonsensical tripe that simply does not work.

Which one?

So you're encouraging people to go and pray to allah?

How would they be able to verify their claim?

All due respect but this is not a preachers forum. This is not a place for people to come and preach to others. Please make note of this before you attempt to "make people feel better about [a] god or gods". Would you go to a car forum and start preaching to them that they should believe in leprechauns? Of course not, so it seems pointless to do the same on a science forum.

 

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I hate your long winded posts AmerEagle. I'll still read them. But I really fucking hate them.

Anyways.

Problem with the Trinity is it's simply easier to justify believing in God and Jesus as two seperate entities than it is to believe in the Trinity. On it's own, taking the Bible as fact, that theory stand pretty firmly. Once you move to the idea of the Trinity, the theory still stands, but it becomes a lot flimsier. It's done with a loose interpretation and introducing concepts that weren't already in the bible. Why bother? The word trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible. It's a purely human-made concept. (please ignore the easy "so is the Bible"-dig please

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Hey Godless, I tried finding this SouthStar guy and the thread you were talking about and found nothing. Got a link somewhere?

 

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You know, Sciforums has been here for years, I've got six years under my belt, we have over 9 thousand members, all in all I managed to find his post on Google!

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With A Heavy Heart, I Say This to Atheists and Christians:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=40413

By clicking on his name on that thread you may be able to find all the threads started by him. Like I mentioned he had been here a long while, kind of reminds me of LightGigantic, however SouthStar is bit more logical, intelligent, and reasonable than LG. S.S' tantrums when discussing or debating against atheists defending his faith were rather pretty good, his above thread explains how he basically came to realize that religion was no longer for him.

AmerEagle I meant no disrespect when stating that we have been deceived by religious rhetoric, it's a fact, I stated it as such. Whether one believes in god or not is not what I meant by that, but god has been a tool of manipulating the clans of the world one ideology of beliefs always has clashed with another. In all honesty I don't need to try different denominations, go to different churches, and worship, when I came to realize that all religions, all denominations, and all ancient holy texts were nothing more then mere stories of how these clans survived in ancient times, their wars, their beliefs and what not...I think that if you believe in god, you don't need to try different denominations, or places of worship, hence if you truly believe just being in your own room, and praying and worshiping a god should be good enough.

Why show as a hypocrite that one believes in such deity? Why even bother to be in a denomination of controlled religions? These are nothing more then mega corporations making priests millionaires and some billionaire and all of it tax free! They don't really provide for the poor, if that was the case there wouldn't be any hungry children in the world, just Pat Robertson on his own is worth over a billion dollars. The son of a Bitch lives off the church and his low paying labor on his diamond mines in Africa, this is just one example, many others are out there with plenty of looted funds, always begging for more, and btw they all start as being a pastor in some small place, but they all want the same thing "to live off the efforts of others." Whether making millions or just plainly living with out working, but only deceiving his congregation with false promises, and false hopes, meanwhile he hordes the poor, lives in a fine house, and drives a fine automobile!

 

Yes! but if you die then all three died, correct?. Was that the case with Jesus? When he died and rose up in those three nights and three days, WAS GOD DEAD? Who was running the world?

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Lively Discussion

There used to be an atheists' forum at Delphi, you guys might also enjoy.
They seemed so acutely unhappy, nobody could help, so probably all of us others made tracks.

We were just dutifully reminding of OPTIONS, as you would throw out something to hang on to if they were drowning.

There are sometimes articles in magazines about how to be happy, and being destructive isn't ever one of them. I may not bother to come back, once I see you just want to fight, and in case I don't see you again, here's a thought question for a souvenir.

Are you hurting anyone but yourself? Aren't you tempting God to use that "lightning and stuff" ? But it's not my problem. So long. I may or may not see something to interest me again.

Oh, and I've probably been registered 7 or 8 yrs too, because of a friend who's interested in science, but couldn't keep up my interest.

I would think our interests each have their own cubicle in our lives, sports in one, maybe, science in another, food and recreations in their own niches, and morality beliefs in their own place. It takes all that and a lot more to make a person, and they don't have to be causing conflict.

You guys do have an interest in sports and other recreations and can be happy at times, hopefully. I've reminded you God's not to blame for churches' human flaws. Sure, I've worshipped at home at times, when ill for example. And sometimes split up my tithe between a church where I may like the stained glass windows, music, and compatible people, and another church that happens to have a poor box by every door, in hopes they do some of the feeding of the hungry children and like that. I'm not trying to sound righteous. I'm reprobate like anyone else. Just saying you might get lucky and find a place where some of the young people are interested in science, or SOMETHING you'd like. Might make job connections, too, although we're not supposed to admit to any self-interest, I guess. We do know God wants us to prosper and be in health. Let's appreciate it. I don't claim to know all about the Holy Spirit, or The Trinity myself, just doing the best I can. Used to be an organist, have been having a lot of eye surgeries due to diabetes, and may get able to do that again. With a degree in art, I enjoy also one church's stained glass forming one whole east wall, ceiling to floor. It's beautiful and conducive to happiness. Hope you find some too.

 

Thanks for the link. My problem was the characters in his name that replace the S, threw off my first basic searches and I got lazy after.

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But yeah, thanks again. I'll give it a read some time.

 

Well, yeah. It doesn't make much sense. But Jesus didn't really die. Remember how he came back and was like "yeah, I'm still here."

 

So all that jesus dying for man's sins is just a scam?

 

I guess so!

 

AmerEagle,

Jesus states in the Bible that Moses wrote of him. Can you direct me to the verse or verses in the Old Testament where Moses writes of Jesus? Thanks.

 

god, jesus and the holy spirit are 1... the same way as red, blue and green are parts of 1 light.

 

Damn it, god's such a prankster :|

 

Who's fighting? I'm just contradicting belief in god! I have no use for it, I'm not at risk, risk of what? Aren't you at risk you've might have picked the wrong religion, the wrong god? Throughout human history there been thousands of gods, what if Zeus was the real god?

I know all that, I have been a person for 45 years!

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as a child I was forcibly indoctrinated in Catholicism, in my teens I moved on and searched other religions, it was in my early 20's when I decided that religion was just an evil rhetoric plot to manipulate ignorant masses! You may blame the study of history and philosophy for that realization.

Just cause one is not in the church every Sunday, does not worship invisible entities, does not partake in any organize religion, does not mean that one is not happy, far from the truth. Most people seek happiness whether they be from one denomination of religion or not have non-at-all! It's human behavior to search for happiness, it's one of our main goals of being human. I'm most happy when I'm working, even though the pay may not be all that I want or need!

 

The Holy Spirit is frequently called "The Spirit of God," or just "The Spirit," in the NT. So, the "Holy Spirit" is really "God's Spirit."

God is a "spirit" in and of himself. So are angels. A spirit cannot have another spirit. Therefore, the "Holy Spirit" or "God's Spirit" must simply just be referring to the spiritual substance of God himself, and not to a separate conscious entity named "The Holy Spirit" which can make its own decisions.

Jesus is a separate spiritual entity from God, with his own consciousness and ability to make a conscious decision independent from God. We know this because the Bible says that the spiritual entity named "Jesus" does not know when the "Second Coming" will be, only the spiritual entity named "God" does. Also, the Bible states how God has given this entity named Jesus authority, and that Jesus is the "firstborn." In order to be the firstborn, or born at all, you must be separate from God.

So you simply have God and Jesus. There is no "Trinity." In fact, the Bible never mentions the word Trinity or alludes to a Trinity concept.

 

Monday Morning 3-19-07

Hello Again, Everyone

We're finally getting to know each other? Two of us have even told our age, and a little about our experiences, backgrounds.

About Moses speaking of Christ, sorry, I told you I don't know it all, sure don't have it all memorized, and there's an easy-to-use phrase search at BlueLetterBible.org I'd have to refer you to. Moses may have spoken of Christ a lot, of course. Not just any one place.

Hey Guys, maybe we're not meant to understand everything about The Trinity concept and the Holy Spirit.

Because last night one of the TV preachers quoted about Peter asking a group whether they'd yet received the Holy Spirit. I wasn't fast enough to jot down the scripture reference, but there's BlueLetter if interested.

They said We have not even heard if there be a Holy Spirit. So Peter did something and they all received the Holy Spirit or The Gift of the Holy Spirit, not an exact quote.

They apparently didn't ask for any detailed explanation, and neither do most of us, I would guess. We accept a lot of things, such as how computers work, by faith without knowing the details.

Wouldn't we have some kind of brain overload if all of us understood all about the inner workings of computers? And many other things?

I don't even know, or want to know, how cars work.

My sympathy about bossiness in Catholocism, its burning people at the stake past, that protestants can't even take communion there. It's where I sometimes sneak in to put half of my tithe into a poor box and then go to church somewhere else. I even had a call from the Catholic choir director who was looking for a pianist so he could just be a conductor. I would have been really out of place there, I'm afraid. If they were planning a Christmas special, doing some of the Messiah at a Sunday afternoon program, I maybe would have leaped at the chance. There's also an acapella group which is just as bossy and separatist, maybe even worse, to watch out for and I'd say avoid. But there's lots of others to choose from which might be compatible, IF you're interested and feeling that sociable. You can even be a permanent visitor, not formally join, to avoid anything unforeseem that might offend you.

Not that it's going to profit or affect me in any way, no matter what you guys decide to do with YOUR lives. I'm just trying to dispense some cheer, as I'd want you to do for me if I was feeling discouraged, which could be partly just a mood, you know. None of us is preaching. Just very honestly discussing.

 

That's inaccurate. To use your car statement: "I don't even know, or want to know, how cars work."

Most people don't care how computers work, they just look at the evidence which is that when you push a specific button it lights up, starts whirring away and you can type on it and stuff. If you want to figure out how it works it's pretty easy to do so, and does not rely on any kind of faith whatsoever.

I think you should go to a mosque, or perhaps a synagogue. I think it would be the best thing for you to do. I'm not preaching, I'm just honestly helping you because you're feeling discouraged. It doesn't profit me or affect me what you do, I'm just dispensing some good cheer.

Sorry, was I preaching?

 

I'm Not Muslim or Jewish

You asked, Snakelord, "Was I preaching?" Maybe, a little, but that's okay.
You were afraid I was preaching.

I need to make clear that I'm Christian, not a Muslim or Jew, I guess. I meant there's plenty of other CHRISTIAN religions, when one that thinks it's the only one gets too offensive, as evidently happened in Godless' case, and "Don't ask;don't tell" just might work, about doctrinal differences. I don't delve into Calvinism, at a Presbyterian church. We all now have scriptures we can read for ourselves, and can just meet to worship God, not any human, reformer or otherwise. I never hear him mentioned. Women MAY tend to be more right-brained, attracted to things like art, music, philosophy, abstracts, and just leave mundane details alone.

Some things about religion, such as The Trinity, for all I know may not be meant to be completely understood on this earth, some other kind of "dimension". Guess it must have been in the book of Acts where the people accepted the Gift of the Holy Spirit without any questionning of what it is. Too bad I wasn't swift enough to write it down to look up.

Is that Delphi forum still open? Several years ago when I stopped by, some of them were disturbed by seeming contradictions in the Bible. I happened to see and buy a little book about that but they wouldn't have been distracted from their negativity no matter what I could have said. Each publisher seems to change some things very slightly, so there could be mistranslations and some on-the-other-hand-in different-circumstances statements. That's too much nitpicking.

Reformers like Martin Luther, the first one, were sometimes in danger of their lives. At least we haven't had any more burning at the stake, that I know of, since there began to be other denominations.

Jesus once said, "Other sheep have I, that are not of this fold." Whatever that means.

 

AmerEagle, you do understand that there is no mention of the Trinity in the Bible don't you? It's a purely false man made addition to Christian doctrine. It's not a matter of anyone being in the right dimension or whatever. :wtf:

 

I wasn't "afraid" of you preaching, I was advising you to find out the purpose of this forum and the things you shouldn't do.

Then it needs to be made clear that the mass majority of us here are not christian. You see no point in me preaching at you to go to a mosque, synagogue. Likewise theres no point in you preaching at us to go to church.

Personally from what I gather from your posts you don't need a discussion forum, you need a blog.