The Physics of Time Travel

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by kmguru, Jul 5, 2002.

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  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    Start with a Black Hole ...

    The physical possibility of time traveL is something of a catch-22. Any object that's surrounded by the twisted space-time that time travel requires must by its very nature be fantastically perilous, a maelstrom that would inevitably tear apart the foolhardy traveler. So physicists have labored to create a theoretically acceptable time machine that's free from nasty side effects like certain death. Their starting point: black holes.

    Black holes are famous for sucking in everything around them—including light—and never letting go. But black holes have other characteristics, namely the way they bend nearby space-time. A black hole is infinitely dense, which means that it pulls the fabric of space-time to the breaking point—creating a deep pockmark, complete with a tiny rip at the bottom.


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  3. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I've been looking at this over the past couple of weeks, but I don't see a method of tearing through timespace, but mearly something that Archimedes stated all those years ago... Displacement.

    I mentioned in another topic that the quanta of our universe is like water making a sea, and that to create a "bubble" (blackhole or vacuum) parts the universe like a deep sea diving bell.

    I mention Displacement because once you remove the universal quanta your left with something that exists no matter wether the universe does or doesn't, thats a complete void. I term it "Null-space" for it's absence of zero-point energy. (Of course I'm sure there is another name for it)

    I had looked at the methods of creating a blackhole, but this involves the utilisation of parallels and a wave collapse (based on Schrodingers theories).

    The idea was that you could create a wave collapse that is slightly rotated on each parallel from the last that would create a hole through all the layers. (Here the understanding is the world in which you exist is "Multiworlds" and the parallels are layers of it, so it basically punches a hole through multiworlds.

    As for wormholes, the understanding here was to use a method of one of these Multiworlds punctures, and to create it at the "Destination" end of where you want to appear, You then have to move that formation (which can be stretched/shrunk) to your departure end. The whole time there is some shaping to stop something travelling flying out before it reaches the departure end.

    Reason for using the same one, is that it works differently from teleporting, although you'll find that you'll depart after you arrive. (it's just one of those odd rules)
     
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  5. Pine_net Chaos Product Registered Senior Member

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    It's all a bit curved at the bottom isn't it? You crazy black holes... Always causing trouble...

    They need a good spanking from Hawking.
     
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  7. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    Black Holes are thoeretical objects and their exsistance has to be proven for sure. If black holes are found not to exsist, then we have no chance for time travel, which is good.
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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    Why good? is it because Thor did not know how to travel back in time?

    Did not Thor die and his mind is now uploaded to a computer the size of a laptop?

    BTW, most of the houses in US have a black hole. Sometimes you lose an item and not to be found again until it emerges from the white hole a few years later....

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  9. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    It is good because humans cannot destroy their future by changing their past
     
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    That is why, you need Time Cops and a whole Justice Department to preserve Time....
     
  11. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    You watch too many movies. The best way to stop desruptions in the fabric of space and time is to not play around with. What if we inadvertantly kill the father of a great future leader. We cannot take a risk with time travel.

    I am not jealous that he can't travel back in time, I know the risks
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    I am not sure time travel is really possible where the future "matter" can interact with the past.

    I will let you know, if a future person shows up at my door step....from 3000 to 30,000 AD
     
  13. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    Time travel is still too risky. Thoeretically, we can only travel back in time as the future hasn't happened. But with black holes, shouldn't that just slow down time???
     
  14. kmguru Staff Member

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    There will be some interesting paradoxes as to what you can or can not do. Suppose we learned to send a sphere the size of a basketball next year and send it back 10,000 years. Now, based on technological progress, we should be able to send an object the size of the moon 10,000 years in the future.

    Now, if we do send the moon past 10,000 years then for 10,000 years we will have two moons rotating our earth....right?

    OR...if you send your ACE, the $100 bill serial no. AZ12345 to 30 days past, you will have two bills with the same serial number...

    OR...you can send your girl friend back a year and have two for a year....
     
  15. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    according to EPR (faster than light communication) - Einstein, Padorsky and Rosen experiment, it doesn't matter if blackholes exist or not, as it is still possible to mess with the timeline using just information.

    (BTW, information exchange at such high speeds is done with the change in amplitude/Pitch of frequency rather than speed or length)

    This experiment in itself would have catalysed many changes in the universe in which it started. So from Thor's view...
    WE are all going to die.....!!!

    From my view, well ... perhaps we won't.
    it's more likely that the parallel worlds will cause havoc to the multiworld they all inhabit through the ebb and flow of quanta, but this true mutliworlds won't be one observable by ourselves purely because of what would happen with these combined quantum positions.

    There is the more likely fact that the omnipositioning of quanta within a multiworld from numbers of parallels having different alignment actually create a "White-noise" of quanta, that in turn cancels itself out. This creates a Electromagnetic background that even we can see, usually known as Zero-point energy.
     
  16. Carrot Registered Member

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    Just do it

    Someone thinks they can do it

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    Are you willing to try?

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  17. kmguru Staff Member

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    NASA is not going to take any chances...so would Saddam...
     
  18. Skull Registered Senior Member

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    Isn't a Black Hole just a giant vacuum cleaner that happens to be sooooo magnetically/gravitationly powerful, it effect the fabric of space? Sucking everything in it's path into a centre sooooo dense nothing can escape?
    I propose that that is all they are. Sure IF you were to pass too close to one then time would more than likely slow/stretch, but wether you would perceive it any other way than normal is a debate another time.
    I suggest that the Big Bang theory, in practice is actually the breaking down of the internal functions of a mega black hole. The life cycle of a Black Hole (World according to Skull);

    A star dies, when it does, it can go in a number of different ways.
    One being the birth of a Black Hole. Thus begins a life that really sucks. With the more "Star Stuff" gathered the larger and more powerful the B.H. gets. The B.H. begins to effect the gravitational ebb and flow of surrounding systems, bringing the B.H. and the surrounding systems closer to the inevitable. Thus moving and consuming.
    More than one B.H. exists, but the stronger more powerful B.H. will ultimately consume the weaker simply adding to it's own volume.
    The B.H. thrives on the gravitation pull from external sources, perpetuating it's own gravitational field at the expense of others.
    The death of a Black Hole is the spectacular part. When there is nothing left to consume, when there are no longer any gravitational influences, no matter how seemingly minute, pulling against the B.H. it finally and ultimately turns in on itself. With the collapse of the intense gravitational field that was maintaining the central core to a single point, looses it's stability and explodes/implodes/lets go/gives up the ghost, whatever.
    Suffice is to say, a new universe is born. Stars are born. Stars die.
    Begin the process again.

    Personal I don't see how Time Travel as we describe it would work using a B.H. as the major contributing factor. Longevity... Yeh, taken as a given. So long as you could get back out from the gravitational pull.
    But I do know one thing as an absolute certainty... One day we will find out whats right and what snot.
     
  19. Emfuser Registered Senior Member

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    I want my socks back!!!

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  20. Solaris Registered Member

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    Why not time travel backwards? If you could go as fast or faster than the speed of light, you'll go back in time.... theoretically anyway....

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  21. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    We can go backwards, but I'm not sure about forwards. How can we go somewhere where it hasn't happened
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Thor

    We can go backwards, but I'm not sure about forwards. How can we go somewhere where it hasn't happened

    We can only travel forward in time. Move away from the Earth at a substantial fraction of light speed for a few minutes, turn-around and come back. Although to you it would appear only a few minutes had passed, Earth and its inhabitants would have aged many years.

    You would be transported TO THE FUTURE !!!

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  23. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

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    I think the answer to the paradox question is that even if you travel backwards in time, it wont mean that you arrive in the past. Time is not a road where you can travel back and forward passing the same spots several times. (Actually, you cant do that on a road either, because time will have passed, so even if you return to one spot, it will not be quite the same).

    I think there is a general misconception about dimensions; the well-known 3 dimensions are not up/down, right/left, back/forward.

    They are:

    1st dimension: Distance
    2nd dimension: Area
    3rd dimension: Volume

    From this, you can see that time as the 4th dimension is not just another direction, it is the added property to space that enables matter to exist.

    Like with the road, if you walk back to a place where you have been before, it is not the same as when las time you passed it; time has passed, the spot is changed (even if you may not notice the difference), likewise, if you travel back in time, you will not reach your past, and if you travel back forward, you will not reach the present. Some dimension (there is probably an infinite number of dimensions) will be different. What this will mean to your perception can only be speculated at.

    Hans
     
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