When 25,000 people attend a protest it usually indicates a large amount of support for a cause. In Vicenza 62% of citizens oppose the base. That is probably representative of the rest of Italy, especially given the rest won't see any economic benefit. Funny, the most recent war was initiated by a radical, unthinking fringe.
Well, that's an interesting take on the issue. I suppose you'd have the same feelings and thoughts if 25,000 people attended a rally of neo-nazis, right? And national laws and/or policies should be changed accordingly, right? Baron Max
You still dont get it do you Bax? Local population voicing an opinion on what is going in in their area. Why havent you answered my questons? Just come here to "agitate"? If the Government decided to plant a foreign base right next to you, without your consideration, would you keep your mouth shut?
Would you be so benevolent towards a rally of 25,000 neo-nazis wanting to rid their area of blacks? Isn't that "voicing their opinions"?? If I'm not mistaken, the people of my area elected government officials to represent us in the system of government. That's why we "hired" them, that's their job to watch out for our "considerations". Or don't you believe in democratic representation?? Baron Max
They're allowed to march but probably won't be allowed to advocate 'getting rid of blacks'. In America and most of Europe that contravenes hate speech laws. Free speech and the right to peaceful protest are central tenets of democracy.
I agree! But what I don't agree with is such "protests and demonstrations" setting or changing government laws, rules or policies. The problem, as I see it, is those demonstrations, etc are only a minor few of the electorate, yet they often create such fervor in the media that actual government policy is changed without the consent of all of the citizens of the nation. That sucks giant donkey dick!! And it's also not the way our system is supposed to work. Baron Max
The government has voted to allow the expansion of the base so clearly in this case 'national interest' has won out over local interest (whether it's truly in Italy's national interest is, of course, a matter for further debate). As for that fervor you mentioned I don't think 25,000 waving banners and chanting slogans would ordinarily be able to bring a government to it's knees (although, as others have pointed out, 25,000 is probably just the tip of the iceberg). I share your worries about the anti-democratic power of the media, though - that's a legitimate concern for every democrat.
Tell me Baron, why wont you answer the question? If the Government decided to plant a foreign base right next to you, without your consideration, would you keep your mouth shut?
No, I'd voice my disapproval of it. But then I'd be shocked and highly pissed off if me and 24,999 people were able to force the government to change their policy, rules or laws about anything. Baron Max
Baron Max: "I'd be shocked and highly pissed off if me and 24,999 people were able to force the government to change their policy, rules or laws about anything." So would you then punish yourself in your anger over transgression on authority? What an amazing loyalist. Surely a model citizen, the envy of regimes so historically beleaguered by their citizenries: Great Empires of the Ages Absolute Monarchies of Olde Europe Soviet Union 3rd Reich Vichy France If a majority had only thought like you, Baron, I'm sure many regimes such as these would still be flourishing today.
Oh, no, of course not! What I'd do is strap on some sticks of dynamite and go to a crowded mall somewhere and blow up a bunch of innocent women and kids. And maybe doing a lot better than we are today, too! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Baron Max
I think the American Revolution is a good case in point .....where only a few disgruntled citizens forced a vicious, deadly fight against the British and many thousands of lives were lost in the process. And many citizens, if not most, were not even for the rights of independence from the British Empire. We can look back into history and rejoice over that independence, but there's virtually no way of knowing what might have been if we'd not fought the British. Except you, Sam ......you can now blame every horrible thing that's happened since 1776 on the USA ....so it works well for you and the radical Muslim causes. Vengence is mine, sayeth the Muslims of the world. Baron Max
Yep, just like the Muslim Iraqis killing other Muslim Iraqis. Exactly the same thing, Sam. Except .... Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Muslims of the world. Baron Max
samcdkey: "And why these white men killing other white men?" Certainly a desire for liberty (in the case of my white forebears) and empire ( in the case of Baron's). Pretty murky how we might pin that particular carnage on Islam. Want to try, any of you Barons, Princes, or Fraggles?
But...that is their opinion. Voicing dissent and expecting the government to listen, perhaps engage in a dialogue, that is the essence of a representative democracy, but Italy isn't one.
