The perils of precision-guided advanced weaponry

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200303/31/eng20030331_114295.shtml

A British soldier who survived a fatal friendly fire incident has launched a scathing attack on the US pilot responsible for killing his comrade.

"He (the pilot) had absolutely no regard for human life. I believe he was a cowboy... He'd just gone out on a jolly," Lance Corporal Steven Gerrard told The Times of London, regarding the incident Friday.

Gerrard, 33, spoke to one of the paper's reporters from his bed aboard the British hospital ship Argus in the Gulf.

A British soldier was killed and four others were injured Friday in a friendly fire incident in southern Iraq, the fifth such casualty since the war began.

He was killed after an American A-10 tankbuster plane targeted two armoured vehicles near Iraq's second largest city Basra.

"You've got an A-10 with advanced technology and he can't use a thermal sight to identify whether a tank is a friend or foe. It's ridiculous," Gerrard said.

"Combat is what I've been trained for. I can command my vehicle. I can keep it from being attacked. What I have not been trained to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is shooting at me."

He added: "I'm curious about what's going to happen to the pilot. He's killed one of my friends."

Gerrard also criticised the pilot for shooting when there were civilians so close to the tanks.

"There was a boy of about 12 years old. He was no more than 20 metres (yards) away when the Yank opened up. There were all these civilians around."

Three of the injured British soldiers, including Gerrard, were flown home to Britain late Sunday after being treated for shrapnel wounds and burns. A fourth remained in the hospital ship's intensive care unit, according to The Times.

"After this I am quite pleased to be going home," one of the wounded, Lieutenant Alex MacEwen, told the paper.

"'Blue-on-blue' has always been one of my biggest fears. It is something that my friends and family joked about. 'Don't worry about the Iraqis, it's the Americans you want to watch'. The proof is in the pudding really."

The fatal incident brought to five the number of British soldiers who have been killed by friendly fire since the US-led war on Iraq began on March 20.

On March 23, a US anti-missile Patriot missile shot down a British Tornado bomber, killing both pilots on board. A day later, two soldiers were killed when a British Challenger tank mistakenly opened fire on another Challenger tank.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/4529397.html
The pilot can be heard in the cockpit trying to establish whether targets on the ground are coalition forces or insurgents.

One man asserts that orange panels on the vehicles could mean they are coalition forces — most are equipped with bright markers to prevent such incidents.

Another man is heard saying the orange markers look like rockets.

"I think killing these damn rocket launchers, it would be great," a man on the recording is heard saying.

Two U.S. A-10 jets allegedly opened fire on Hull's tank, which was part of five-vehicle convoy engaged in combat outside of Basra. Four other soldiers were injured, including the convoy's leader, Capt. Alexander MacEwen.

The convoy — three British Scorpion tanks and two engineering vehicles — had come to a halt at the edge of a shantytown near the southern Iraqi city of Basra. The soldiers were being approached by a crowd of civilians carrying a white flag when they were attacked.

The transcript printed in The Sun records the alleged exchange between the pilots after they realize what has happened.

Pilot 1: "I'm going to be sick."

Pilot 2: "Ah f---."

Pilot 1: "Did you hear?"

Pilot 2: "Yeah, this sucks."

Pilot 1: "We're in jail, dude."

The other pilot then weeps, according to the transcript.

So how difficult is it to tell from the cockpit?
 
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barren max said:
Very difficult. Perhaps even extremely difficult.
I don't think it is that hard with all there tech and training in target recognition. Then you have to ask yourself how often do you seen a rebel armor column and how often do they use british scorpion tanks.

Now errors do happen and can be accepted, but errors cause by someone to lazy to make a proper id is not.
 
No harm done. The weapons industry needs to make a living too. The guided ammo can be replaced and the British scorpion tanks too!

As for the occupying forces they should know they shouldn't be in Iraq. Things like this never happen that often in the UK.

end sarcasm.
 
14 days ago here in little ol' DK someone unfortunate fool manage to shoot to of his buddies under a live fire exercise... with a hand gun, maybe he forgot to breath and could see clearly
 
I don't think it is that hard with all there tech and training in target recognition.

Did the armored vehicles have "recognition" equipment installed? Was it operating properly at the time?

Then you have to ask yourself how often do you seen a rebel armor column and how often do they use british scorpion tanks.

From the air, with radar, a large truck might look very much like scorpion armored vehicle. And without the proper "recognition" equipment...?

Now errors do happen and can be accepted, but errors cause by someone to lazy to make a proper id is not.

And do you know that the pilot was being lazy and not interrogating the recognition equipment? All I know about what happened in what was posted, and that didn't give jack-shit for info ...only the sensationalist bullshit that Sam always uses to rile people up into heated arguments.

Baron Max
 
From your questions it is fairly obvious you are talking out of your ass again.

why do you post crap like "Very difficult. Perhaps even extremely difficult." when you haven't even bothered to do even the slightest google search?
 
I thought you were supposed to pretty much "know" what you shooting "before" shooting it. Also, the person said there were children all around Surely the pilot could see the many civilians? And if not then don't shoot.....
 
Correct.

The pilot does have to confirm with ground support that there are indeed no friendly forces within the target area. The mistake here was on the part of the information conveyed, not on the pilot.
 
Very difficult. Perhaps even extremely difficult.

Baron Max

Easy, actually. A10's are subsonic aircraft, and used in close quarters. The pilots clearly saw the orange identification panels, and should have been able to recognise the silhouette of the vehicle as being coalition.

These were Air National Guard pilots, not regular Air Force, who had never seen action before, this was there first combat deployment. The issue therefore, was their lack of experience, and they fucked up. For one, how many instances of insurgents in armoured vehicles have been reported?

I don't know of any, they use guerilla tactics, destroying our armoured vehicles, not driving around in their own. These guys forgot what war they were fighting.
 
Easy, actually. A10's are subsonic aircraft, and used in close quarters. The pilots clearly saw the orange identification panels, and should have been able to recognise the silhouette of the vehicle as being coalition.

They were flying at 12,000 feet. That's almost 2.5 miles ...and you say it's easy to recognize things from that distance?

...this was there first combat deployment. The issue therefore, was their lack of experience, and they fucked up.

The tapes show/tell clearly that the ground controller said that there was no friendly forces in the area. So ....who fucked up?

For one, how many instances of insurgents in armoured vehicles have been reported?

12,000 feet, remember? 2.5 miles? Just take a look outside and see what you can recognize at 2.5 miles. See if you could tell the difference in type of vehicle.

These guys forgot what war they were fighting.

The tapes show/tell clearly that the ground controller said that there was no friendly forces in the area. So ....who fucked up?

Baron Max
 
if you can't recognize it you shouldn't shoot it.

That's why they have GROUND CONTROLLERS ....people on the ground in radio contact with the air-support aircraft.

If you put the aircraft low enough to actually see clearing what to shot, then you've put that multi-million dollar weapon in danger unnecessarily.

Baron Max
 
Dear Baron,:D

Apparently they had there ornage flags showing which was meant to show they were british armour, i think the guys inb the A10's thought they were rockets... Or so the line goes...

Oh and by the way..........I hope you are well:D :D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All the best ZAk
 
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