Life after Death

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Alkimos, May 18, 2003.

  1. Halcyon Guest

    The thing is, nobody honestly knows. Any opinion(even my own) towards one extreme or the other is baseless as there is no evidence to back it up. The fact that consciousness exists after bodily death(yes, it is a scientifically proven fact, I know several doctors and physicists that would like to talk to anyone saying otherwise.), is a phenomena being that we don't know what actually constitutes consciousness. The theory that consciousness exists as a form of energy is the most widely accepted theory. It may be a stretch, but it's not difficult to associate that energy with activity in your brain. Members of the scientific community are undertaking to apply this theory, and until it is proven wrong, or another one arises, it stands as the only truly feasible explanation to the survival of consciousness aftre bodily death.
     
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  3. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

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    hmm, when you die it is like you've never been born? isn't that how you are right before you are born? reincarnation anyone?

    as for the horrible god deal who sends people to hell and allows bad to happen...first of all, the only unforgivable sin is to not as for forgivness...and if bad things never happened to good people, wouldn't bad people be good for selfish reasons?
     
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  5. Alkimos Registered Member

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    Consciesness vs Brain

    I beleive the consciessnes is seperate to the brain. The brain just couldn't accomodate all the images that it does over a lifetime , it is only made up out of neurons. When the body dies the "spirit" seperates from the brain, and perhaps meets other spirits. It is dificult to prove this as it is subjective and thus cannot be subjected to objective logic, one could only prove it to themselves. It is in a totaly diferrent dimension. That,s my belief.
     
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  7. DrNeroCF Werecat Registered Senior Member

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    images? as in memories? hmm... is that what the soul does?...seems kinda scetchy to me...but who knows

    One more thing...the brain has massive storage capacity. If we rebuilt a brain with the smallest particals we have, it would be bigger than earth...least that's what I heard
     
  8. vitaminA Registered Senior Member

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    .

    Well first of all, have you thougth about it not being God who makes the bad things happen? And plus, he's not there to just do whatever's good for us. We have to learn for ourselves and improve ourselves to gain a step, maybe. Don't cound on God to do everything for you. You have to work hard, and he will give you a puch, a hunch to what to do next. And if you're not sure about what happens after you die, I guess there's only one way to find out...

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    ~*vitamin*~ Well first of all, have you thougth about it not being God who makes the bad things happen? And plus, he's not there to just do whatever's good for us. We have to learn for ourselves and improve ourselves to gain a step, maybe. Don't cound on God to do everything for you. You have to work hard, and he will give you a puch, a hunch to what to do next. And if you're not sure about what happens after you die, I guess there's only one way to find out...

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  9. vitaminA Registered Senior Member

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    .

    sorry about the double message.
    ~*vitamin*~
     
  10. bratok Registered Senior Member

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    LOL

    A true story. Friday evening, one guy was walking home from work through a park, as he was stabbed multiple times. The ambulance arrived and pronaunced him dead. The body was covered and brought to the morgue. Momday morning, when the pathalogist came, he suddenly spun to life... in the hospital he remambered how he was stabbed and then like he was falling into a deep, dirty well. He crampled on the walls of the well and climbed out. He found himself at the same park and saw a bloody body being packed into the ambulance. He tried asking people what happened, but no one noticed or responded to him. As the ambulance took off, he fels some link to the body and ran after it. Soon he felt flying a few meters upon the ambulance. On his way he saw a fire and firefighters. In the morgue, he remambered that the body didn't fit into the elevator at first and that a cigarette pack was laying in the elevator, etc. Two days he was woundering around the morgue, untill on Monday morning he felt being sucked back into his body and then wakeing in the hospital. All the details ( cigarette pack, firefighters ) matched to what really was.

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    This is one of the brightest examples of what one can experience during clinic death. So if a scientist didn't yet proove the existance of a "sole", it doesn't mean that there isn't one. Same as there was electricety or radiation, before its existance was prooven.

    I think that after the body dies, the sole/mind goes to some place, some might call it absolute or heaven, then it either reincarnates into another body or, if it has reached it's peak, it might move on to some other worlds...
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2003
  11. vitaminA Registered Senior Member

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    bratok

    are you russian? I am, and I read the russian text on the pictre, so I figured maybe you were...But anyway, I agree with the sole thing you said. That's what I think. I just wonder how many soles may be around us, if they are at least. I also agree that we might move onto another world. But maybe we have to improve ourselves or something in this one.
     
  12. bratok Registered Senior Member

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    Privet!
    Konechno ja Russkij

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    , a kartinka, k stati, iz "Kuzjkinoij Materi" Norbekova. Ochenj sovetuju, kak i ego "Opit Duraka". Dalee pishu na angliskom, chtobi i drugie ponjali

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    .

    As believed by many cultures, the sole wounders around the body for 3 days, then moves on. Suppose that if for some reason the sole can't leave, it would wounder around much longer, as a ghost.

    The sole also does improove all the time during many lifes. So when one body dies, but the sole still has lot to learn, it reincornates into another boby. When it has learned everything it could learn here, it moves on... maybe to reunite with god, maybe to some other worlds to learn more. Some do believe there are 7 other worlds like ours, that the sole has to go to and study, after it has learned everything here...
     
  13. vitaminA Registered Senior Member

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    105
    zdorova, spasibo.

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    I heard about what you said, about the sole learning what it needs to here, and when it has, it can goe onto a different world. I just don't understand why the sole hangs around the body for three days after. Maybe it's waiting to go back to the body or something. I also heard, that when a a person dies, his soul goes through a tunnel at the end of which is a light. I know it sounds cheesy because everyone talked about it before, but I've read many stories about that. Then some soles were at this place, where there was this (if I can call it "thing") that everybody recognized as God. He gave off light and said "what have you done?" as in asking what have oyu done in your life, I guess. Then he asks if that sole is ready to leave that world or somehting like that, as if knowing that they're really not, maybe. And then there are motion pictures of their life. That might sound cheesy too, but that's what I've read.
    I just think that if we knew our previous lives, it would be a little asier to try to improve your sole maybe, becasue then you kind of see the diference between the two. I don't know. It's just kind of hard to understand what we need improvement on, you know? If you don't know what to improve, it might take a long time. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here, lol.

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  14. bratok Registered Senior Member

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    Nu, po povodu trjoh dneij, tfu

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    ... about this tree days the sole stays on earth. Some do believe that the sole might have some unfinished buissness or something. Others claim that after the body dies, the sole goes into a tunel at once.

    In the above example, the "sole" was falling into some well, too. But it was able to climb out and follow the body. There where other examples of patiens haveing clinic death that would instantly go into a tunel, but then be forced to return...

    Smotrju chto mi tut spokoijno mozhim perehoditj na Russkij, boljshe nikto etim topikom ne interesuetsja

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    .

    Posmotri, k stati, na chto Norbekov napisal po povodi intuitsii -
    http://www.norbekov.com/Osnov/L_os0001.shtml
    http://www.norbekov.com/Osnov/L_os0002.shtml
     
  15. vitaminA Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
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    I read it, not all of it, but still, it was interesting. Oh, and before the tunnel thing happens, the sole floats out of the body and is floating above where it can see the actual body beneath. I guess it's not in all cases, but it sounds kind of like out-of-body experience. I wonder if you can get stuck while trying the out-of-body experience.
     
  16. Some research

    Hi folks,

    Do you know any scientific research about instrumental transcommunication? We have some research in Finland related ITC, but not published anything yet.

    There is some scientific articles about afterlife possibilities in Finnish Journal of the Paranormal, while not specifically a parapsychology journal. Those articles related to international meeting in Finland at last spring.
    http://www.rajatiede.org/paradocs/tutkimuksia.html
    Unfortunately almost all of articles are in finnish, but most interesting are in english.

    Best regards,

    JP Lassila
     
  17. Researches in Russia?

    Privet!

    Znaet li kto-nibud chto-nibud o Genrihe Silanove iz Voronezha i ego issledovaniyah?
    Does anybody know something about russian scientist Genrih Silanov and his research? Or do you know any other interesting scientist on paranormal from Russia?

    Greetings from Finland,

    JP Lassila
     
  18. bratok Registered Senior Member

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    Neet... o takom ne slihal, no mozhno v yandex.ru poiskatj.
    O life-after-death pisal Norbekov v "Kuzjkinoij Materi", eschjo mozhno pochetatj Volsha "Razgovori s Bogom" i zhurnal "Razumnij Mir" Sviyasha.

    Na www.sviyash.ru estj ssilka na "rekomenduem pochetatj", tam estj etot Volsh. Estj i ssilka na "elektronnij zhurnal Razumnij Mir", v njom pomnju bila stateijka na temu.


    Udachi!
     
  19. Jagger Registered Senior Member

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    Afterlife

    I agree that Near Death Experiences are very suggestive of an afterlife. As evidence, they are subjective rather than objective but still evidence.

    The English Medical Journal, Lancet, included an interesting study on NDE's about a year ago here:

    http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm

    It is 10 year plus study by medical researchers on cardiac patients experiencing NDE's. The study concluded, " We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest."

    Also among the conclusions, "With lack of evidence for any other theories for NDE, the thus far assumed, but never proven, concept that consciousness and memories are localised in the brain should be discussed."

    To sum up, this study was unable to show a cause for the NDE unless we assume the brain and consciousness are separate. Interesting stuff.

    Here are a few NDE sites I have found over the last few years you might find interesting:

    http://www.near-death.com/
    http://www.iands.org/msgboards/messages/544/544.html?1058395270
    http://ndeweb.com/board00.htm
    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF_NDEs.htm

    Personally, I think they are fascinating. And even though they are subjective evidence, I believe they are what they appear to be-glimpses of the afterlife.
     
  20. Robert Martin-HillII Registered Member

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    on nde the airforce did studies as pilots are often going unconscious, and found that not only could they produce nde's but they could produce religous experiences as well.

    as for the evidence on brain activity they are rethinking much of their studies as they have found that much of what they thought ment activity does not alway indicate it nor tell them where it is. the things they look for are sugar use and eletrical impuse but there are other ways for the brain to work other chemicals and electrical impulses which are too low for the instrements.


    But what i wonder is why ask the questions at all???

    one sees forest fires
    one likes the idea of dragons and has seen pictures in books

    does this mean you would ask why dragons start forest fires??

    just because you can imagine an idea or concept and like it does not mean it is.


    The thing i always think when people talk of god
    and the after life and tell others what god wants and how things are,
    is this
    what hubris
    it borders on blasphemy
    if there were a god
    to tell others what it is and what it wants?!?!?!?

    is that not a stoning offence??
     
  21. invisibleone Registered Senior Member

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    We are the universe. We are not seperate from it. The universe is awake right now, you and I are living proof of that. What made our eyes open? The big bang? Maybe. . . There could very well be some incredible event like this in the distant future that will re-animate us(not necessarily in the forms we are in right now). Why did the universe become aware of itself? Maybe it always has been, and always will be. Who can really say for sure? Existence is a paradox. We are part of something eternal; the cosmos. Yes, our bodies will die. But we cannot be aware of "nothingness" in our death as we will have no senses to perceive this. All of this could be a dream. Or a nightmare, depending on how you look at it. Just as sure as we exist right now, we must admit there is the possibility of existing again.
     
  22. Jagger Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    315
    afterlife

    Hi Robert,

    It has been awhile since I looked at the AF studies but what I remember were some distinct differences between NDE's and the GLOC experiences. The pilots exeriences were less structured than the NDE and lacked the beings of light, IIRC. So I am not convinced they are exactly the same phenomenum.

    I do suspect they may be related though. Certain drugs can also produce experiences similiar to the NDE. Obviously there is some trigger producing the NDE which can also be activated in situations other than near death. The results of activating the trigger seems to produce some sort of separation of brain and consciousness. Who knows, perhaps one day we may learn to purposely and temporarily separate brain and consciousness.

    All of this is well and good. However science only has unproven theories at the moment concerning the origin of the consciousness and the links between brain and consciousness. Until we have a proven origin, we can only speculate whether the consciousness emerges from the brain or they are two separate linked entities.

    I am not sure I follow your logic here. What evidence is there for dragons compared to the subjective evidence of thousands of NDE's? What studies have been done concerning dragons comparable to say the 10 year Lancet study conducted by medical researchers. Comparing NDE's to dragons is a false comparison.

    Are you suggesting that we should ignore NDE's? We know they exist and occur everyday. It is human nature to attempt to understand them. Actually we have zero evidence disproving an afterlife. But we do have NDE subjective evidence supporting an afterlife. Since neither can be proved, the question is open and shouldn't be ignored.
     
  23. johno Registered Member

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    PacingYourName06-15-03, 03:47 AM
    When you die there is nothing. Its like never being born. There is no special energy that leaves .The energy we get is from food we eat and the oxygen we breath .The people that we are is simply memories and experiences. At death these thoughts,experiences, and Ideas just die with the body and you dont even know your dead.


    .....and where do you derive the above information from? or is this just your own personal spin on life itself? Wow thats a very grim outlook. All the evidence points in a much bigger direction with life being endless and full of meaning. There's tons of material out there on the subject. Do you do much reading? The new age section at most bookstores is a good place to start.

    If you believe your statement to be true and are looking forward to it for some reason I'm afraid you will be very disappointed.

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    Life cannot be destroyed, it only changes forms, its a shift.
     

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