How is space bending proved to be true ?

Since nearly 100 years ago we know the term "Space Bending"; and now that everyone believes it, i wonder how was it proved that the stars during solar eclipse observed near the sun show space bending and not light bending around the sun ?

Please talk only about practical proof before starting bashing me.

PS> I searched the past threads but the proof seems unasked.

 

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Its not the mere fact that light paths bend going around the sun that is evidence for the curvature. It is *how much* bending that takes place. In an acceleration field corresponding to Newtonian gravitation something traveling at light speed would be deflected in its path by the sun but the amount that the equations would predict is wrong compared to experiment. It isn't enough. The dynamics implied by general relativity where there is such curvature actually predicts the right amount of deflection compared to experiement. So actually the light path bending by the amount that it does, is "a smoking gun".

 

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If you want more tangible proof, Einstein's General Theory of Relativity (which has been proved experimantally) states that space obeys non-Euclidean geometry. There's a rather simple way to explain this if you're not very experienced with this stuff.

Basically, let's take a triangle. On a plane. It's obvious that the angles add up to 180 degrees. But if we take a triangle on a SPHERE, the angle will be slightly HIGHER than 180 degrees. On a sphere as large as the Earth, this deviation is negligible but still present. In the same way, geometry in our 3D space has some minor deviations around gravitational bodies; which can be easily explained as curvature in space.

 

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Einstein, in his book "Relativity" blatantly stated that he double dipped in his prediction of deflection. He did not explain his double dipping. This has been covered in depth by me in another thread or threads. He plainly stated that he first took the Newton amount of deflection and then added his additional amount of deflection.

The question then arises, unanswered by Einstein, "If Einstein gravity explains light bending, Why ADD the obsolete Newton amount of bending in the first place?"

I have no further comment to make in this thread. Anyone interested in disproving my claim about Einstein's quote has my permission to read Einstein's own words in his book "Relativity", very widely available in libraries and book stores.

 

so u all mean there is no concrete proof of space bending ?

 

Did you even READ the non-CANGAS posts?

 

I guess you didn't read the posts past the first word.

 

singularity

Singularity` words are not singular. They are truth!!!

 

Here's a quick question...

If space is bent by matter excerting gravity, then if particles in a particle accelerator are moving at 99% of c, then their mass should be extremely high (reletivity), causing significant ammounts of warping. Does this make a viable warp drive scheme? By creating a gravity well in front of a ship or something through extremely fast-moving particles?

Obviously I havn't really researched this that much, just a thought I had, please tell me why this wouldn't work, because it just seems too easy.

 

Correct that part of your arguement and then we'll move on.

 

Speed doesn't affect mass, it affects INERTIAL mass (the F = ma stuff) not gravitational mass (the GM/r^2 stuff).

 

You should use four-vectors. Then it doesn't even effect that. The mass m in four-vector force is mass times four-vector acceleration does not change with speed. Every experiment purported to confirm mass dilation is actually confirming time dilation only. That alone is where that factor of <FONT FACE=SYMBOL>g</FONT> actually comes from.

 

THERE IS NO REAL PROOF.

JUST ALOT OF EVIDENCE.... which suggests things.

-MT

 

I know what you mean, it's just that it's tricky to explain that to someone who's not used to Einstein's theories anyway...

 

And the truth is that i am yet waiting from u to know how did we know what curve the light takes past the sun.

 

singularity

Hi, Singularity,
I mean that your doubt is truth!

When I was in my PhD program, I had lots of problem: If you consider spacetime curved, why do you specify which coordinate is distance r, which coodinate is time t, and which coordinate is angle? During my GR class in my second PhD program, I asked my professor, if spacetime is curved, how the coordinate \phi is angle? The professor answered that acctually spacetime curved very little, therefore do not worry about it.

Theory is one thing and its test is another thing. It is very tricky to say, e.g., black hole is verified!!!!!! Measurement verified parts of the assumptions of a theory and the authors say the whole theory is verified.

There is a Chinese saying: when everyone says the same that the dead is alive then it IS alive. This eaxctly the current astrophysics.

Remember that warped spacetime is never meaured!!!!

 

Just because you personally didn't understand, doesn't mean that it isn't so.


And, singularity, you didn't ask for the experiment that shows how much diflection takes place. The first of those was a measure of apparent stellar positions relative to the sun from 1919 solor eclips photos. Because of the deflection they appear as being in the wrong place in the sky. Lately gravitational lensing phenomenon have been the subject of such studies.

 

more

More words on philosophy:

I surfed most physics, scientific, and even math forums. It is amazing that, relativity, curved spacetime, black holes, and big bang are hot topic. From my experience, it is fact that no alternative theory be published in mainstream journals or even in arxiv.org. Do not see the revolutionary time of gravity is coming!!

 

Trilairian

Hi, Trilairian,
It is not done.
``The first of those was a measure of apparent stellar positions relative to the sun from 1919 solor eclips photos. Because of the deflection they appear as being in the wrong place in the sky. Lately gravitational lensing phenomenon have been the subject of such studies.``

You talk about measurement. Great.
There are two explanations to the measurement:
One is yours, light goes straight on bended space.
Another is mine, light bends on flat space and consistent to special relativity.

What do you want?

 

Space bending is very true. When you turn on a flash light against a wall, the light takes the shape of the lense on the wall, thats because the photons are subject to the shape and size of the mass of the lense, they will follow the function of the curved space for a while till the distance from the lense is too far. The mysterious black holes also influence light because of the warped space in and around them. Another level of prove is the sun and earth. The Earth rotates around the sun( according to popular believe) because the sun's mass and shape warps and influences the surrounding. Otherwise earth will be free floating in space like any other object. The ancient chinese astrologists believed there was something that carring particles from one end to the other apart from air, it was the beginning of the understanding of space curve.