Pollux is right as far as I'm concerned. In fact as I was reading his theory, I recalled back to when I was saying the exact same thing.
How long ago was this? Do you admit that the theory is crazy in its own right, that only speculation really fuels its potential? I'm not sure which side to take: mine or the throngs of people who disagree with me. But alas, a supporter! Welcome to sciforums, active, I hope you will be active as time wears on!
Of course... Speculation is what should fuel the world, not facts. I started wondering about that guy in office before he even was elected. It's almost like something out of a movie. Daddy gets no support any longer, so sonny gets in ,Mind you..not by popular vote, and does the bidding of his father. It's like Star Wars...Oh and by the way. SW2...Hell yeah....Yoda vs. the Count. HAHa I loved it.
Pollux V, I think your conspiracy theory went a little to far, here is mine: 1. Bush hears about the hijackings, several months before they happen, from intelligence sources that are spying on Saddam. 2. Bush decides to blaim the hijackings on Osama Bin Laden because OBL lives in Afghanistan, and this gives Bush an excuse to overthrow the Taliban so that he can build the oil pipeline. Military action, and "War on Terror" campaign also give Bush an excuse to increase military spending, thereby rewarding the people that got him into power. 3. A few months before the hijacking, Bush, and his buddies, start to devise "The Plan" to go after the Taliban. 4. A few days before the hijackings, Bush has "The Plan" sitting on his desk, waiting for the hijackings to occur. 5. Hijackings occur; Bush blaims hijackings on Osama Bin Laden without providing any evidence. New evidence comes out indicating that Iraq is involved in both the 9/11 hijackings and the 1993 failed terrorist attempt on The World Trade Center. At the same time, Bush attempts to ignore this evidence. There is no investigation regarding the unusual stock option trading on the day of hijacking. 6. Bush tells the Taliban to stop all terrorist training activities in Afghanistan and to turn over OBL to the US, knowing that the Taliban does not have the power to stop all terrorists in the country. The Taliban says that they will turn over OBL if the US shows them evidence that OBL is resposible for 9/11. Bush does not provide any evidence. 7. Bush attacks Afghanistan. After a while, Bush notices that people are questioning whether OBL is responsible for 9/11, so he orders the CIA to make a tape of OBL admitting guilt. US Senators all agree that the tape proves that OBL is guilt, even though they never verified that the tape is genuine. 8. The US military overthrows the Taliban. Suddenly, Bush is no longer concerned whether OBL is caught, or not. As you can see, I believe that Bush knew about the hijackings but allowed them to happen. It scares me to think that you might be right, and that Bush may have planned 9/11. Tom
Wait a second tom....what oil pipelines? It is scary to think that this guy could've planned the slaughter in NYC, I wonder what the hell we would do if it came to be true. I really think that there would be utter chaos, that everyone would just storm the white house, find the f*cker and torture him (cutting of genitalia-I'm serious) before setting him on fire and showing the entire world. Since my conspiracy thread seems to have found a new home here I'm going to repost it for those that didn't see it before (nothing has been altered): My alter-ego, the conspiracy-theorist, has arisen. I must say these things, as completely lunatic sounding as they are. It has come to our attention in the media recently that Bush sort-of knew about what was going to happen. Supposedly he had no specifics, but here goes on the web of conspiracy: 1) Bush could see that his popularity was waning, that he was getting nowhere in his presidency after the elections. Like any president (I assume) he wants to be great and remembered forever, so he mulls over this thought for awhile, and comes up with this result. No president has ever been great unless he has shined during a huge conflict-like Washington, Lincoln, FDR, and Kennedy. Bush does not know if a tragedy on the scale of a civil war or a new world war will occur, so he forms out a plan. 2) Using his connections in the oil industry he comes into contact with Osama Bin Laden and commissions him to do something unbelievable. Bush believes in plausible deniability, so not even he will know what will happen. Bush makes a deal with Bin Laden: -Kill a lot of people, all at once, get the nation's attention -If you do this, I will hide you, and make sure that no one will ever find you [Osama]. Anything you've ever done previously or in the future will be nullified-we will not (unoficially) care about you. 3) This way both Bush and Bin Laden win. Bush becomes great, is remembered in history forever, and Bin Laden is now a free man, or at least he is not hunted by the United States. Not seriously, anyway. I know this is crazy, I have no proof to back this up, it's just mad speculation, mad I tell you mad! I just had to say it, the web makes sense. It all revolves around bush being a major fuck-up, though, but that anyway doesn't seem too unlikely. BTW Active you're right...yoda seriously kicks ass...join ME in scifi to talk about it....
Pollux V, Bush's oil buddies have been wanting for years to build an oil pipeline through Afghanistan which would transport the large oil deposits in the Caspian Sea. Unfortunately, because of the Taliban the pipeline could not be built, until now. Here is an article explaining this pipeline: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew41.php Tom
Just when things were going smoothly for the oil companies and their hired US army you have to go and tell the truth! However if you think we will have a hard time preventing a terrorist attack here. The pipeline will be a target of mixed feelings for the terrorists for years to come. BTW wasn't the last James Bond movie about the Ahghan pipeline?
Gee, maybe Art Bell and other conspiricy theorists knew about the attack in advance, and let it happen just to have somthing to talk about! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Evidence? We know that there were warnings, but such warnings were rather vauge. Evidence? Uh huh. That's why Bush looked like a complete moron when he first went on tv after the attack. That's why he fled Washington, rather than appear the hero and stay. That's why Bush didn't have a stirring speech right after the attack. That's why it took his speechwriters time to write one. Puh-leeeze. One of the hyjackers talked to Iraqi intelligence. Other than that, your evidence is......? Ignore the evidence? Uh huh. Why would Bush ignore evidence of Iraq's complicity, when it is obvious that he is itching for an excuse to attack Iraq. The stock option trading? The Chicago Board Options Exchange is investigating it. Oh yes, and don't forget that UbL bragged about the attacks on tape. Would be a bloody brilliant move for him to give them anything classified. Nobody was questioning it, save a few internet conspiricy theorists. And, the tape has been analyzed by the FBI (if memory serves) and CIA. And it has been given to several major news organizations, here and overseas. It was available on the internet breifly. Why has it never been debunked? Catching UbL was always a long shot, anybody who studied the situation knows that. And there is still activity in Afghanistan. Does 'Operation Snipe'* ring a bell? *Love the name. Active8: "Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason with or without reason; if with reason, then they establish the principle that they are laboring to dethrone: but if they argue without reason (which, in order to be consistent with themselves they must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument." --Ethan Allan. Pollux: So, Osama, who has already been attacking the US, has to be told to attack us again? And do you realize how large a conspiricy this would have to be? Firstoff, Bushie would have to tell the military leaders (whose Pentagon had been attacked, their own killed) "Hey, we're not going to go after the guy who attacked your country. Even though that's your job. Why? 'Cause my buddies want this oil pipeline..." They'd be talking to the press soooo fucking fast! Besides, special forces would suspect if they were being led on a wild-goose chase. Or are they in this conspiricy too? We're talking about thousands of people, then. Do you think they could all keep quiet? Not a mite or smidgen of evidence. Bush is a fuck-up? So was Harding. But Harding didn't conspire with foreign powers.... Bush being a fuck-up proves nothing. Edit to add: Bert did it. Bert is evil. http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/bert.htm
Xev, Yesterday on CNN, a pentagon reporter indicated that there was a detailed report on Bush's desk, one day before the 9/11 hijackings, that contained military actions to be taken against El Queda and the Taliban. The reporter indicated that the 9/11 hijackings occured before Bush was able to read the report. Why was there a military plan against the Taliban and El Queda on Bush's desk before the hijackings? It is likely that this plan was created as a response to a future attack on the US. This would imply that Bush knew about the attack ahead of time and ordered the plan to be created. Since the government works slow, I made the assumption that it took several months to create this plan. This would indicate that Bush knew about 9/11, months before the attacks. [ First of all, the only evidence linking any of the hijackers to anyone is the meeting between one of the hijackers and an Iraqi agent in Prague. There is no evidence suggesting that any of the hijackers ever spoke to Osama Bin Laden. Also, it is a fact that the 1993 failed terrorist atack on the World Trade Center was also linked to Iraq. The only terrorist attack against the US that was linked to Osama Bin Laden was the USS Cole attack. Secondly, how long do you think the CBOE takes to investigate unusual stock transactions??? A year??? No, it only takes a few hours. Remember, under SEC rules all stock trades are recorded. It was only analyzed by the CIA, after they made it. The FBI never recieved the original tape. Copies of the tape were given to news organizations, but they couldn't confirm that it was real, or that it was fake. Tom
Xev, as I said before, with regards to my conspiracies, all I say is speculation. There isn't a smidgen of evidence to back any of it up. Part of the plan, Xev. Plus Bush looks like a crow staring at a ringing telephone whether or not he knows what he's talking about (something rare for this fellow-strategery I tell ya!) They could've easily found a double or used a good deal of makeup. Also, have you seen the latest animation technology out there? Yoda, Jar Jar Binks? I don't doubt the CIA or FBI could get access to this technology. Money is the root of all evil. Bush sure has a sh*tload of it. Maybe anyone who wouldn't take the bribe was in the area that was hit. I'm sorry xev, this must be pissing you off.......just speculation, remember. Nothing to back it up. Nothing (I speak for myself).
First, sorry if I came on a bit harsh. Wasn't my intention. Prosoothus: Perhaps - or perhaps it simply means that Bin Ladin was thought of as a threat beforehand. He did bomb (you may disagree, but bear with me) our embassies and the USS Cole. My point exactly. So how would sources spying on Saddam figure that out? I'm sorry, you'll have to provide a link or somthing. I've never heard this before. I can imagine it would take longer to track the traders, and who commisioned the trades....(stocks are not my strong point, though) Don't you think, if it were fake, somone would say somthing? Pollux: Yeah, he does. But that night - the first thing I thought was "My god, they've got him doped on valium" But he didn't have anything reassuring to say, either. I remember chatting about it with friends and my first reaction was "Well gee, I feel sooo reassured." Possibly, but that sort of animation would have been detected by anyone with a little technological know how. As for a double, there are certain facial characteristics that one could easily map and compare to known pictures of Bin Ladin. Requires that Bushie was conspiring with the hyjackers themselves! A bit far-fetched. Besides, I have an extremly low opinion of humanity. But even I don't think that thousands of people would have remained silent for these 8 months.....sorry. Ockham's razor, too. Christ, Bushie can't get his nominees through the Senate! Could he do this? I think not.... Not really pissing me off, I'm sorry if I come across as pissed. I'll tone down.
The technology is getting to the point where it is realistic enough to fool even human eyes. If the CIA or FBI has this stuff then it could be assumed that they're a lightyear ahead of everyone else. Could you imagine the uses of something so useful to an organization that has the potential to lie and cover things up? The media really hyped the f*cker up, and he had a 90% approval rating. Your view, and mine, isn't widespread...at least I don't think it is. I have no way of knowing. That's the idea Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!. Don't worry about it.
Xev, Here is an article regarding the connection between Iraq and the 1993 failed terrorist attack on the World Trade Center: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/mylroie.html Tom
Prosoothus ... "...the 1993 failed terrorist attack on the World Trade Center: The 'failed' attack? I seem to remember it being successful. Though, admittedly, it didn't bring one or both of the towers down. Did the USS Cole attack fail because it didn't sink the Cole? Take care Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Chagur, Both the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the USS Cole bombing were intended to kill many more people than they actually did. This is the reason I called them "failed terrorist attacks". Tom
The conspiracy theory that Oil Interests had a hand in 9/11 for the purpose of blaming Osama Ben Laden, giving them an excuse for an invasion of Afghanistan and then perparing the political environment so that a pipeline can be built, crossed my mind as well. My day-job is designing pipelines. And there are people in this industry who are evil enough to do such a thing. Enron wasn't all that suprising to me. I'm sure Oil Interests and the Financial Interests have some ongoing competition for their piece of the world pie. The destruction of the towers would be a blow to the Banks and other Financial power brokers, and an opportunity for the Oil Interests to furthur their cause. It makes you think. Most likely it's just coincidence. After all, Oil and Banking are big interests no matter where you are. The fact that a Texan, with ties to the Oil Industry, is in the White House when these things happened is probably just coincidence. I have personally worked on some prelinimary pipeline designs through Iran. It was/is not legal to build such a line. But they are considering all possibilities. There is very big money at stake.
If we wanted to overthrow the Taliban to build an pipeline, why would we kill 3000+ Americans to get an excuse. This wasn't a military action that required swaths of troops to be used. Air power and special forces weakened the Tali, while the various alliances in Afghanistan did the rest. This stupid ass consipracy theory, with its sisters are unfounded and an insult to all true Americans.
Define 'true american.' Bush is an asshole who wants to go down in history. That is what ties the theory together.
And curly, we never did this either? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p/20020524/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/chemical_weapons Since we are so innocent and over goverment is goverment of angels. How can we kill our own people for 4 trillion dollars. I think 3000 is a very small number for 4 trillion dollars, people kill even for pair of shoes. Check out the above link and I am sure till today you have never believed that we tested chem weapons on our own soliders? But now you will. Things seems impossible today 40 years from now will become possible. There is lot more out there, then Osma, oil and war. If we put emotions aside we will be able to see lot more then what we see now.
