Objects Of Unknown Origin And Moon Dust

Damn I feel like the poor relative, I lived on bxxrr'lbx XIV, and could only afford to visit bxxrr'lbx XVI on the Holidays.

 

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I'm talking about the OFFICIAL NASA claim that the object was in fact a Russian Satelite. But they've "mislocated" the fragology files associated with the crash.

What I like about this case is there's a FOIA paper trial with a lot of eye-witnesses who saw the "satelite" crash (and crash-LAND). It also puts some guts into the Moondust/Bluefly teams, that were created for nothing more than recovering objects of unknown origin.

I wonder if we can find a MoonDust reference to the Fragology files now lost at Nasa? What was the object they recovered? A Soviet Satellite? Why were there no Russian symbols on the craft? How did the Satellite stay intact during re-entry? How did this satellite CHANGE DIRECTION as it crash - landed? Why can't NASA, or anyone find the files associated with case, let alone this rather amazing Soviet Satellite? Why did NASA (prove) that it could not have been a satellite and then proceed (years later) to say that it was?

It's my hope this case will be the undoing of all the lies.

 

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Sorry Btimsah, but full disclosure about who, what, and why "they" and we are here will only come with "those out there" appear in our skys in very big ships.

VERY BIG ! !

Norval

 

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This NASA disclosure proves we do hide objects of unknown origin. It also proves our military could not determine the origin of the object, so we sent it to NASA to figure it out.

Which means they recovered a UFO.

Then finally, the eye-witness accounts and NASA's own debunking discount the idea that this was a re-entering satellite. Oberg himself has debunked the sat theory.

Skeptics had been saying it was a meteor that burned up on re-entry. Now that's not possible to say anymore. Some skeptics still believe it was.

 

I know, dudes, this whole NASA thing is, like, SOOO crazy. Why don't they just admit that there is regular transportation available between Glaxon Nine and Earth, via the Pludamaxoniomusimus XxxxxzzzzbzxcxbIr Disk flying buses? It's so mwinlarioing transparent, I just want to famicate in my zipodals. It's freaking molionimus!

Being a native of Mrwwinilanwonoh VIIX, I have to say that you bxxrr'lbx's lost us the Zarkdamned war. We're stuck on this hunk of cheap rock because of your shmaloc-assed politics!

"No, but I don't want to drop huge bombs on the moon! No, I don't want to erradicate Mars! I'm a fleebing chimoo!" hahaha...you radnocmo's make me laugh.

Speaking of which, why is freakin' Norval the only dude to figure all this out? I'm shocked that there has only been one human being on this crappy planet to figure out that there was a full-scale, interplanety nuclear war in prehistory! Like, the freakin' signs are everywhere. It's so obvious, it make the time you bxxrr'lbx's forgot your malgoniwogs at the drycleaner look like protoanamorphiansupermagnificent faster-than-light-travel science!

JD (Known as Der'Bleegledroo Vangunblix back home)

 

Have you not thought that they sent it to NASA because NASA wanted it back?

I mean just read about the recovery of the "Dome shaped object" in the second link and the "aluminium foil" points. It's know for years the US has been sending rockets and eventually manned missions into space, during the process of getting people up there it required preportions of the rockets to breakoff as the fuel deplete, not all of those parts would have fallen directly back to earth, some would have floated in a decaying orbit around the earth with the eventual occurance of falling back down.

Obviously if thats the case then you can't say when or where those parts would land and obviously since they were US made and funded I'm sure they wanted them returned rather than being reverse engineered.

As for the where abouts of 50 year old documentation, Well it might be law to declassify after 50 years, but wheres the law to say adminstration has to keep the documents that long? I know in the UK businesses are suppose to keep accounts records for about 3 years incase they are required and people moan about it, I'm sure they would really moan if they had to keep them for 50 years.

 

You're never going to win, Stryder...these folks already have it in their heads that UFOs are being kept secret, so you cannot convince them otherwise. They aren't looking for this "truth" they speak of; they only search for conformation, and anything that points against their belief will be considered fake, lies, or skeptical nonsense. It's funny, really, but very annoying at the same time.

JD

 

JDawg, try to use your brain. Now follow me here...

The object at Kecksburg was unidentified, YES A UFO, AND SENT TO NASA(To determine it's origin) where it has been hidden for 50-30? years. If that's not hiding a UFO, then nothing is.

We can argue about what the UFO is, but we cannot argue that NASA would not hide them - we know they have. IT'S A FACT NOW.

 

#1. The witnesses and track of the object as it crash-landed tells us that the object had some form of control and shifted directions trying to regain control. A re-entering satelite, yes even a magical soviet one, would not have this control.

#2. Witnesses at the scene, and the army could not identify this as a russian satelite. Indeed, NASA had allready ruled out the possibility of it being a sat. James Oberg himself ruled this theory out - mr. debunker himself. The object did not have any russian markings.

#3. For years the military has said this object, was not an object. But NASA is now saying they could only determine it was a Russian satelite. Which, we know from #1 and #2 is not likely.

#4. The documents and materials from the crash, labled as "fragology files" are missing and have been lost. Nobody knows what NASA used in 2006, to determine all of a sudden that we did in fact know what the object was if in fact these files were missing.

The Government has trapped itself in lies. They can't really tell us what the object was, they've allready painted themselves in the corner. So instead of attacking me, or following the "anything but alien" playbook try studying the case. Try reading the testimony. Consider who in this case has been honest, and who has not. COnsider who has something to hide, and what they are hiding. Consider what is realistic, fair and fits with the evidence.

 

OK, so you're jumping to conclusions. You don't know that it's been hidden anywhere, let alone at NASA, so let's just drop that story right now. Let us stick to the facts. And for once, I might have to take the kook's side on this one. I've done my research here, and I'm quite impressed with the findings. Let's talk, shall we?

In 1965, the official Air Force response to the Kecksburg incident was that the impact was caused by a meteor, and nothing was recovered at the site. However, in 2003, Nicholas L Johnson, the cheif scientist for orbital debris at NASA stated that after checking the orbital paths of known satellites from that time in 1965, there was no possibility that it was a satellite that crashed in Kecksburg. Yet, in 2005, NASA officially stated that it was a Russian satellite bound for Venus that crashed, and not only that, but they had recovered debris from the crash that had scattered along the way. Unfortunately, NASA says the records were lost, except 40 non-descript pages regarding the incident.

OK, so I'm not going to get into the eyewitness testimony here, because I think it's all bullshit, to be honest. There is a construction worker who claims to have hauled bricks to the base in which the craft was located, and somehow, despite needing fucking the highest clearance level to reach the area, he "snuck a peek" at the object...yeah, sure, whatever you say, pal. That, and the people saying that the falling object seemed to have "intelligent control" as it went...I'm sorry, but they are talking out there asses.

What I will say is that this whole fiasco with NASA making two different claims, and the Air Force making another, each contradicting the other in numerous ways, is quite interesting. I won't, however, start in on the whole "lost documents" thing, because shit like that happens all the time; there have been banks that lose their entire client list's personal information...the fact is that people are human, and they make mistakes. Perhaps the damned thing is misfiled somewhere else, or it was accidentally thrown away, or damaged somehow.

Didn't NASA just last week announce that they had lost a shitload of information?

Things like that do NOT in any way equal a cover up.

But I want some answers on this. I want to know why the Air Force first said in 1965 that it was a meteor, and then NASA in 2005 said it was a Russian satellite that they recovered pieces of, only to say two years before that that it was not possible to be a satellite of any kind. These things need to be answered.

But I imagine that it has more to do with incompetence and lack of leadership than a cover up.

The biggest question of all this is why the fuck would they cover it up? This is NASA, the guys and gals who are exploring the cosmos. They would kill for the opportunity to find a friggin UFO! If they had alien technology in their hands, they would tell us. Otherwise, why the hell are they out there on Mars looking for water and life and stuff like that if they're just going to keep it to themselves? It does not make any sense, and you can't argue around that.

JD

 

Government officials have
a) a natural tendency to be secretive
b) an natural tendency to cover up incompetence
c) some have an above average tendency to be incompetent

You don't require anything more than these three things to explain all the lies, dishonesty and manipulation. I find human mendacity and mediocrity(proven qualities) a more persuasive an explanation than alien visitations.

 

I agree. The thing is that this might be the UFO Believer's best case. The official explanation for Roswell is easy to accept once you get past the hearsay and rumor that circulates the internet at Sci-Fi channel, but Kecksburg is truly a myriad of contradictions. Astronomers who give half-assed findings that don't take into account margin for error (friggin Canadians), and the two government agencies giving three different answers on the subject.

Granted, the Air Force in 1965 was not the same as it is today, but the fact remains that they made an official statement that was completely refuted by NASA in 2005. And to top that off, thier lead orbital debris scientist refuted that claim two years before they even made it. So, I won't say that this scientist wasn't wrong, or that something else might have been a factor here, but a scientist at NASA is going to get the benefit of the doubt in my book. And to hear NASA just blatantly disregard his findings two years later without any explanation of it...well, it just sounds fishy, man.

I agree with you, though, and find that to be the most likely scenario. But at the same time, I'd really like some answers here.

Joe

 

You don't need to ask if they have covered it up. We know they have factually covered it up, and in my past investigations I've proven that NASA does work with our miltiary to hide sensitive information.

It's also important to understand this - The United States still says no military presense was deployed to Kecksburg that night and that nothing was recovered. NASA, just a year ago said "oh yeah that was a russian satelite" - in response to a FOIA request.

I have a feeling this is going to be the case which will prove NASA has studied crashed objects that are of unknown origin. I also believe that some of those (rare) objects were of ALIEN origin. It's my hope, this case will prove that. The sad twist is those working at NASA probably would deep down love the same thing.

 

I agree with A) - secretive, and in this case that's certainly the case. If you wish to play the mundane claims win the day then fine. As for me, I see something a little bit more important here.

I might also add that NASA just admitted TO THEIR INCOMPETENCE. So which is it?

 

OK, this is where you're losing credibility. You don't know anything. The changing stories seem to involve more incompetence than cover up. But no matter the case, in what "past investigations" did you "prove" that NASA hides sensitive information with the military? How can you just say that and provide no evidence whatsoever? You're full of it. Give me proof. Shouldn't be hard, right? Seeing as you've already done the work, right?

That speaks against your theory that NASA works with government agencies to cover things up, doesn't it? I mean, all NASA did here was tell us that a satellite crashed; they never said one didn't. Yes, one scientist said it wasn't the case, but the official release was that it was in fact a satellite. Now, aside from that, how are you saying they're covering it up? Where do you see that? The lost records? Again, that kind of thing happens all the time.

I think it really is just about the fact that you personally believe aliens are visiting us, and you just will not see it otherwise.

Considering NASA just completely contradicted an official Air Force press release, I would venture an educated guess that they don't in any way, shape, or form give two shits about what the military says. If they had an alien aircraft in possession, they'd let us know. They'd be the heros of the world, man. Imagine the funding NASA would recieve? Imagine how good it would look for the United States to be the ones who could make the claim that they were the first to recover a crashed alien vessel, and the first to study alien technology?

Think of this: a Russian satellite crashes in 1965. The US government recovers it, but can't let the Russkie's know that they did. If they let the USSR know that they had their technology, the USSR would be pissed, and during that time in World History, pissing off the USSR was something you tried to avoid. The heat between the two nations was intense, and something like a recovered satellite (or probe headed for Venus...whatever the hell it was supposed to be) would have caused an even bigger rift. The Russians could have made demands to have the thing returned immediately, with which the US would have had to comply. Instead of letting it be known, the US announced that they had found nothing. This way, they could study Soviet technology in secret.

And the Russian's answer? Well, it's embarassing to fail, and especially so when you're in a Space Race. The USSR might have known that the US had their craft, but without official validation, there was nothing they could do but make their own official announcement that they had in fact lost nothing. Saves face, you know?

That is a far more reasonable scenario then the one including crashed alien spacecraft and a massive cover up. Sure, they may have been a cover up, but not in the way you think. It might have been a cover for actual national security, not to hide the most welcome notion of having intelligent, obviously peaceful neighbors in the universe.

JD

 

Yes, I have seen enough "evidence" which illustrates our military covers up, hides, destroys, lies about UFO's to form MY OWN OPINION on the topic.

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I've learned long ago the trump card all skeptics have is the most likely claim. Because, let's face it - almost anything is more likely than aliens.

But that really does not get us anywhere, IF THE EVIDENCE WE'D USE TO PROVE THE EXISTANCE OF ALIENS IS HIDDEN. Thus, the importance of this case is not in the aliens - it's in the coverup.

It illustrates why it's ridiculous to request evidence of something that is DEEPLY top secret and hidden. As this case represents. That is, unless you still think this object is a rock.

 

If my post above does not illustrate the catch-22 UFOologist's find themselves in, then nothing will.

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Fair enough, btimsah. As long as you are admitting that it is your own personal opinion, then you can go on believing it without me (and others) having to smash you (figuratively) for it.

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But still...I'd really like to hear what you consider "evidence" on the matter. I mean, it's not nice to tell us all you have this "evidence" and then not to share. Imagine if I had said "I banged Jessica Alba on video!" and then just disappeared from the site? That would SUCK!

This also is true. But don't forget that skeptics aren't a group of people who are just totally against the notion of aliens. Skeptics don't belong to a club, they don't hold monthly meetings on how they can bury your claims in a snotty manner. They aren't trying to show you up, or a part of a grander scheme to hide ET from the world.

What you said is accurate, and the basis for anyone who is skeptical of alien visitation: Almost anything is more likely than aliens [visiting the planet].

Of course, this is also true. You can't ever prove it if the evidence is hidden. But then again, how do you, or anyone else, know that aliens are here if the evidence is hidden? I mean, it's kind of laughable to think that there is a real claim being made here that this "evidence" is completely hidden and kept away from the public, but at the same time, you all know for a fact this is the case...it's kind of an impossible claim. You can't know it if the thing that would let you know is hidden, right?

But the problem lies in the fact that you are immediately taking this event (for example) and attributing it to aliens. Something falls out of the sky, the Air Force tells us one thing, NASA tells us another years later, and you just jump to the conclusion that it's an alien spacecraft. Rather than, as I pointed out in my last post, taking a good hard look at the situation of the world in those days, and seeing that it's not only possible, but most likely, that the satellite was covered up because we wanted to avoid a confrontation with Soviet Russia involving one of their downed probes.

To make the jump from "downed object" to "alien spacecraft" is just not good science, man.

While I agree that the FOIA is pretty much a useless thing when the information in question isn't something anyone wants the public to see, but the fact remains that it is useful after the fact; years later, when something once top-secret becomes un-top-secret, it's nice to know that we can go get a copy of it.

And no, I don't think the object is a rock. I believe it is a Russian Satellite, just as NASA said.

JD

 

I've come to certain conclusions myself based on my very logical an precise mind. If you think of things in the following way you'll have alot easier time dealing with UFO's, Aliens, and the like.

NASA owns an operates based on government regulations an other various sources. It's in essence a private corporation to which no one outside can have access. It also employs many people from various countries, has unique technology, an is able to launch craft into outerspace. So here's my point...

Even if they are covering up UFO's an alien activity what right does anyone have to actually know? I mean I'd love to know an hear more about this from them but it's not their responsibility to share that information should it exist. Now if I could start my own corporation then I'd be entitled to whatever I want, I could learn all about these incidents an it would be my right to know then. However if I'm just not bright or smart enough to figure things out, or do research comparable to that of NASA, well why should they help?

So basically they aren't required to do anything other then what they want, an if I had intelligence enough then I could pretty much figure out an research in the same ways they can, it would just require alot of effort an backing.

 

Not really, dude. NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and was established July 29th, 1958 thanks to the National Aeronautics and Space Act. It is in no way a privately owned or operated entity, as it is funded soley (or at least in the vast majority) by the United States Government. NASA is, in fact, a government agency.

That's not exactly true, but it's not exactly wrong, either. Depends on the circumstances. For one, NASA has to fight adn claw and scratch to get the funding they both need and deserve. The discovery of an alien species, be it intelligent or otherwise, visiting us or resting safely under the mantle of Mars, would cause immediate jumps in NASA's funding. They would never again need to struggle to get their money, it's that simple. That said, it is an incredible stretch to believe that NASA would assist in a cover up of such a discovery.

On the other hand, if something were to be discovered, and public knowledge of this discovery would threaten national security (like letting the public know that a Russian Satellite crashed in Pennsylvania in 1965) then NASA would be obliged to keep the finding under wraps.

But to say that they have no obligation to disclose something to the people of the United States is not true. Not only is it in their best interest to let the cat out of whatever bag it may be in, all of their funding comes from taxation...meaning that they recieve the taxpayer's money. They owe it to us--as does every other agency in the nation--to disclose whatever information that will not harm us to know.

For someone with such "an precise mind" you sure seem to completely miss the point of NASA. They are in existance to discover. Plain and simple. Be it for military or scholarly uses, the discoveries of NASA are noble because of their effort.

It is widely known today that, aside from trying to restart their human spaceflight program, the top priority of NASA at this point in time is to find out as much as they can about our closest planetary neighbor, Mars. We've sent probes, satellites, rovers...Spending billions of dollars of taxpayer money on what essential boils down to a search for extraterrestrial life. Why would NASA cover up the discovery of the very thing that they're currently searching for? It doesn't make sense that if they've already found the proof of life beyond the planet Earth that they would continue to do research on Mars. But even putting that aside for a moment, do you realize how much easier it would be for NASA to fund these fantastic scientific expeditions if they had something to show the people who they lobby for this funding? It wouldn't take anything more than a NASA scientist walking into Congress with a piece of an alien spacecraft and stating "This is not from the planet Earth," to get the entire nation to throw money at them.

To sum it up:

If aliens have been discovered, be them crashed or just floating around our planet, NASA's research would lay with that aspect of it, not digging holes in rocks on Mars. And if they are to be discovered one day, expect to see it on the front page of every newspaper on the planet, with every major news outlet running 24-hour a day coverage. Discovering intelligent (or not) life around Earth (or on another planet) would be the single greatest discovery in the history of mankind. Forget fire, forget the wheel, finding an intergalactic neighbor would be the greatest testament to the ablility of Man.

You think? That "effort an backing" would include, but not be limited to, the passing of a Congressional Act, and the governmental funding somewhere in the range of 10-13 billion dollars per year.

Good luck to you, though.

JD