Real Martial Arts

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by nicholas1M7, Jun 10, 2006.

  1. q0101 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    388
    You’re presumption is correct, but having the ability to fight on the ground is an important skill. A man can have the fastest punch in the world, but he is an incomplete fighter if he can’t defend himself on the ground.

    I’m a big fan of the Muay Thai sport. I use to be a boxing fan until I watched my first Muay Thai match. I’ve noticed that the majority of the fighters in Thailand are better kickers and the majority of the fighters in Europe or North America are better punchers. But as I said before, the best Muay Thai fighters can punch just a well as they can kick.

    I don’t like kicks that require you to raise your leg above a 90-degree angle. Once you commit to raising your leg above a 90-degree angle to hit someone in the torso or head, you better make sure that you make contact with your opponent. High kicks leave you in a vulnerable position because you are in a stationary position when your leg in the air. Continuous movement is very important when you are fighting, because it is always harder to hit a moving target. High kicks also leave the knee of the leg that is still on the ground in a vulnerable position.

    It is usually logical to use your hands to hit your opponent in the torso or the head. It could take 0.2 – 0.3 seconds for your fist to make contact with your opponent from its original position. But it can take two to three times longer for your feet to make contact from its original position.

    Yes, I think so. A normal practitioner can begin by doing push ups with ten fingers. Over a period of time they could try to work their way down to two fingers. During this time the person can learn how to focus their energy when they strike by doing things like breaking wood or practicing the one-inch punch. They can also build the fast twitch muscle fibers in their arms by performing different exercises. I like to practice my punching, blocking, and kicking skills with 5kg – 10kg ankle weights wrapped around my arms and my legs. I also do Tai Chi exercises with them on. The weights increases the velocity of your punches and kicks.

    Yes, of course. What is a person going to do if someone that’s stronger and faster than they are attacks them? The neck and the eyes are some of the most vulnerable spots on the human body. Nothing ends a fight quicker than a quick strike to the front of the neck. (Thyroid cartilage) Well that’s not entirely true. The testicles and the front of the neck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
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  3. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

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    I teach my student's martial art, so they dont have to fight, to have the knowledge to drop a person with one blow, does not mean you have the right to use it.
     
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  5. q0101 Registered Senior Member

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    388
    I agree. I haven’t been in a real fight since I was a child. I avoid conflicts whenever I can. Martial arts can also give you the knowledge and the skills to defend yourself without attacking someone. It takes a lot skill to be able to defend yourself against an attacker without using some kind of offense. Most people that are not trained in some kind of martial art do not possess the speed and the knowledge to block the attacks and subdue an opponent without using any offensive moves.
     
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  7. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    q0101:

    "You’re presumption is correct, but having the ability to fight on the ground is an important skill. A man can have the fastest punch in the world, but he is an incomplete fighter if he can’t defend himself on the ground. "

    None can deny such, certainly.

    "I’m a big fan of the Muay Thai sport. I use to be a boxing fan until I watched my first Muay Thai match. I’ve noticed that the majority of the fighters in Thailand are better kickers and the majority of the fighters in Europe or North America are better punchers. But as I said before, the best Muay Thai fighters can punch just a well as they can kick."

    But does the system itself teach such techniques, or does it come with involvement with other styles?

    "I don’t like kicks that require you to raise your leg above a 90-degree angle. Once you commit to raising your leg above a 90-degree angle to hit someone in the torso or head, you better make sure that you make contact with your opponent. High kicks leave you in a vulnerable position because you are in a stationary position when your leg in the air. Continuous movement is very important when you are fighting, because it is always harder to hit a moving target. High kicks also leave the knee of the leg that is still on the ground in a vulnerable position.

    It is usually logical to use your hands to hit your opponent in the torso or the head. It could take 0.2 – 0.3 seconds for your fist to make contact with your opponent from its original position. But it can take two to three times longer for your feet to make contact from its original position."

    All true. I particularly find those extra high kicks - to the head of the opponent and the like - as utterly ineffective in almost any situation. If one miss, one is essentially ruined, and one's balance is completely screwed to resist any sort of pressure exerted.

    "Yes, I think so. A normal practitioner can begin by doing push ups with ten fingers. Over a period of time they could try to work their way down to two fingers. During this time the person can learn how to focus their energy when they strike by doing things like breaking wood or practicing the one-inch punch. They can also build the fast twitch muscle fibers in their arms by performing different exercises. I like to practice my punching, blocking, and kicking skills with 5kg – 10kg ankle weights wrapped around my arms and my legs. I also do Tai Chi exercises with them on. The weights increases the velocity of your punches and kicks."

    How many years do you think it would take to reach a point where one could employ such finger strikes at a whim? Two years of training? Three? Or is it more a matter of months (unlikely it would seem)?

    "Yes, of course. What is a person going to do if someone that’s stronger and faster than they are attacks them? The neck and the eyes are some of the most vulnerable spots on the human body. Nothing ends a fight quicker than a quick strike to the front of the neck. (Thyroid cartilage) Well that’s not entirely true. The testicles and the front of the neck."

    Very interesting! I shall indeed have to consider these techniques. I am reminded of a similar - although clearly, not the same - scene in a movie, where Sean Connery beats down a man with his thumb.

    BLASTOFF:

    "I teach my student's martial art, so they dont have to fight, to have the knowledge to drop a person with one blow, does not mean you have the right to use it. "

    What style?
     
  8. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    380
    prince james, my students are taught all forms of martial art, not just one, i was taught by master Ho Chi Wan, and he taught me well, so his teachings his son and myself are passing on to our students, we teach kendo/ kick boxing/ Tai Chi/ his son and i have been taught bushido, we incorporate all the techniques, into our teaching's, we have some good students. you talk about Muai Thai i have seen and participated in afew Muai Thai fights, the fighters are fantastic, fast strong, and they are procise.these are just a few of what we teach.
     
  9. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,213
    kuntao kungfu, or it's offshoot "kuntao silate".
    no doubt about it.

    i have studied martial arts my entire life, and since my studies in this style started (about 3 years ago), i have never had to practice so much restraint in my technique, as it is primarily based on striking first, and not needing to strike again. there is no defensive technique in the style that does not involve some sort of grevious bodily injury being committed upon your foe.


    im speaking of martial arts without weapons, of course....and my knowledge is far from definitive on the subject. most importantly, you should know how NOT to fight, before you study any martial art.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2006
  10. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,213
    not at all.

    the technique i am most fond of is filling a large bowl with sand, and repeatedly thrusting my hands, fingers pointed, into the bowl 200-300 times as fast as i can, once per afternoon. i have been doing this for 3 years or so, and can easily still play my bass guitar with no problem.

    and that is correct, btw...finger attacks are the most likely to cause severe injury to a foe, if administered by someone that knows what they are doing.
     
  11. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    380
    It is time to move on to a harder substance,try small pieces of gravel. it all works towards hardening your fingers, you can progress later to hot shail, or even hot broken bricks.
     
  12. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    8,213

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    i use the sand to keep my hands conditioned, as i dont train as much as i did in the past.

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    i have already broken a 3 inch plate of concrete with my fingertips for a test given by my uncle (my trainer)
     
  13. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

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    380
    how long have you trained/i have broken a 6 inch concrete block, facing downward with fingers, how many push up's on your fingers can you do, and how many fingers do you use, this is a serious question, please dont think i am making fun, martial art is my life and i take it very seriously.
     
  14. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,213
    well, i have been studying varying martial arts since i was 5 years old....the brick i mentioned above was broken using "the whip" technique. only 2 fingers came into contack with the block, my index and middle fingers.

    every morning i do 70 10 finger pushups.

    i know you arent making fun.
     
  15. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    BLASTOFF:

    "prince james, my students are taught all forms of martial art, not just one, i was taught by master Ho Chi Wan, and he taught me well, so his teachings his son and myself are passing on to our students, we teach kendo/ kick boxing/ Tai Chi/ his son and i have been taught bushido, we incorporate all the techniques, into our teaching's, we have some good students. you talk about Muai Thai i have seen and participated in afew Muai Thai fights, the fighters are fantastic, fast strong, and they are procise.these are just a few of what we teach. "

    How do you find the different styles to mesh? Do you have to make changes to them in order to let them merge with one another, or do you find that they can all ready interlink enough?

    The Devil Inside:

    "kuntao kungfu, or it's offshoot "kuntao silate".
    no doubt about it.

    i have studied martial arts my entire life, and since my studies in this style started (about 3 years ago), i have never had to practice so much restraint in my technique, as it is primarily based on striking first, and not needing to strike again. there is no defensive technique in the style that does not involve some sort of grevious bodily injury being committed upon your foe."

    Can you tell me more about this system? I am intrigued. Have you ever had to use it in a position where your life was in danger? Or in a competition where there was little need for restraint?

    "and that is correct, btw...finger attacks are the most likely to cause severe injury to a foe, if administered by someone that knows what they are doing. "

    Very interesting!
     
  16. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    8,213
    on the varied origins of the style:
    http://www.kuntaw.com/history.htm
    http://www.mindspring.com/~achentaiji/kun tao summary.htm
    http://www.mindspring.com/~achentaiji/kun tao history.htm
    these are all fairly dry sources, but will tell you the basic history of the style.

    no, i do not believe in competitions, and i seriously doubt that any north american or european organization would hold a kuntao competition....there is very little emphasis put on defense in the traditional sense in this style. one of the basic "combat principles" is that if you are going to strike me, i should strike you before your blow lands...once. in that way, it doesnt really lend itself to anything but full contact, and that would be an insurance agency's worst nightmare.

    i have also studied qi gong, wing chun, jun fan, kenpo karate, shotokan karate, tae kwon do, hapkido, and gracie jujitsu over the last 20 years or so, along with western boxing, of course.

    anyhow, i hope the links above are useful to ya!

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  17. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    Yes. The main difference being that instead of severing their head from their body, or chopping off an arm, you just knock them out, or maybe break the arm. Depends on the stick you are using as well of course. Too light and whippy and you have to use techyniques more like those developed in the 19th century for cane and walking stick fighting. Or if you are using a heavier stick, any number of techniques from medieval longsword to backsword will do.

    I am talking western martial arts here, stuff in Europe. I have no idea about katanas etc, I dont think you could do stuff with them using a broomstick.
     
  18. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    For the last 7 years or so I've been training ITF Taekwon-Do (some years before that too, but not serious), but I feel that tkd limits me to just kicks/punches and blocking, but there is no continuation, i.e., I do block, strike and then repeat ad infinitum, it's only an exchange of punches and who can endure them longer, but due to my complexion and small weight that's a disadvantage for me if the opponent is a lot heavier than me.

    I watched a few aikido videos and some of them seem (particulary with Steven Segal) very effective and close to real life, while others have nothing to do with real life combat and presume your oponent is an idiot and only knows a few punches. So I'm puzzled, one one hand some of aikido looks what I need on the other many masters seem like spent thousands of years in their dojo and have forgotten what an uncontrolled environment is like.

    Anyway you here seem to be knowledgable, is there something else similar to aikido and where one doesn't have to be very muscular to be effective?
    I like the idea of evading oponent's strike and doing something nasty with that striking limb, but don't really have anyone to practice that with in my tkd club.
     
  19. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,213

    i would look into Jun Fan, avatar. it is better known as "Jeet Kun Do", of course.

    kuntao might also be something you would be interested in. send me a pm, and i can put you in contact with a few instructors in the states who can recommend resources in europe for you.


    btw: steven seagal uses kuntao in his films too. he was trained briefly by Guy Savelli, who is a grandmaster of the chinese/american style. you can see it in his film "under siege" and it's sequel. most of the striking he does in those films are HEAVILY kuntao based.
     
  20. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    Latvia is small. After I have the name of a style I can just ask my instructor. Everyone knows everyone around here. The sad part is that many of the martial arts are not represented in this country too. So thank you for the advice, I will do a research on Jeet Kun Do.

    p.s. The video of Steven Segal was that made during him teaching aikido, so I know it wasn't any other style. (Aikido The path beyond thought - Steven Segal)
     
  21. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    Okay, I'm now downloading Artes Marciales - Jeet Kune Do - Training Film Narrated By Bruce Lee, will look at what it is like.
     
  22. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    8,213
    im not sure what video you are talking about....i was speaking of 2 specific movies that i know he uses "movie" kuntao in.

    *shrug*
     
  23. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

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    380
    prince james/most martial art can blend into one another quite easily, there are of course some movement's that can not.

    the devil inside/ 70 push up's on ten fingers excellent, do you teach, belts dont mean much, well that's my way of thinking, but what is your colour.if you dont mind.
     

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