Hey Israel, You Missed One!!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Brian Foley, Jul 25, 2006.

  1. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Don't forget building civilian residences over the bunkers. Schools too. Nothing's too good for Hezbollah's PR.

    You mean: why DID they do the above? Simple: accidental. Unless you mean to tell me that Hezbollah firing on UN relief convoys is deliberate? Strange: the Hezbollah ground troops were much closer to their targets than the Israeli artillerymen and fighter pilots, and still fired on the UN. I guess only Hezbollah can have accidents; any incidental evil the Israelis do must be deliberate?

    Hezbollah is never going away, since Israel is never going away. Hate is hate; pure and simple. It really doesn't matter what the Israelis do or don't do, since no accord and no concession ever changes anything.

    Well, I'm one. I know spurious doesn't agree with me, but the use certainly broke the back of Japanese morale.

    It would be for me. But now you're comparing the fight against Hezbollah by Israel to the genocide of Jewish people by the Nazis? Are you mad?
     
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  3. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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  5. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Bunker busters contain no Depleted Uranium, DP is used in high speed projectiles fired from cannons, and the other use that is mentions for DU is in Atomic Bombs, but from what I have read this is not the same stuff used in Anti-Armor Projectiles.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  8. crazy151drinker Registered Senior Member

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    Sam,

    You also enjoy 60 years of hindsight. Interesting article and it makes some good pionts. It also leaves alot of things out such as the attempted Coup by parts of the Military to prevent Hirohito's surrender from being broadcast. While parts of the Government was willing ot surrender a good portion of the Japanese military was not. At least their suicide bombers targeted the Military.
    Any sight called banddepleteduranium is hardly going objetive with facts

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    Either way, im not disputing the health hazards of DU- im disputing your claim that the GBU-28 is filled with it.

    From your http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2895081.stm
    Once again- an OPINION. Not FACT. It could be filled with cow shit for all we know.

    Even the "How stuff works site" admits that it could be DU, Tungsten, or another filler in the GBU-28. All you need is a heavy filler- not the punching properties of DU. A Bunkerbuster is very different from a 10lb APFSDS round moving at 1700m/second.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps they can justify using one atomic bomb. But two?

    The Pentagon is hardly going to publicly admit that they use DU in their bombs

    However studies have been conducted on Gulf War veterans which point to the use of DU in US made bombs.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Sure thing. I assume you take the UN themselves as being sufficiently independent? (Personally, recently, I'm not so completely sure.)



    Hezbollah firing from UN positions:

    Ooh! A "strongly worded protest". I'll bet the word "please" featured significantly. Do you suppose the Lebanese authorities (which, one would have assumed were independent of Hezbollah, except that the UN seems to think that's the appropriate place to complain - and I wonder why that is?) filed that complaint? In the circular file?


    Hezbollah firing on UN workers:

     
  11. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Buffalo Roam: lets stay with the present, that is what this question address, and the fact that everybody is screaming about civilian causalities, and as for your site, the Igrun had warned the British, the warning was ignored, of the 90 causalities in the bombing only 15 were civilians, sad but could have been avoided if the British had taken the warning seriously, and what does that have to do with Hezbullah Fighters padding the civilian casualties figures?

    Everything. Firstly there was no warning concerning the hotel (what you think they were the IRA or something?). Second 91 bodies were found dead and 15 of those were Jewish. Now there is no proof that Hezbollah had 'padded' the deaths because there is no way to know how many casualties there really are until they are able to get through the rubble of bombed buildings which are many (hardly a priority when people are fleeing for their lives or fighting for their lives). Lastly it is the past which has created the present set of circumstances.
     
  12. spacemansteve Not enough brain space Registered Senior Member

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    After a decent nights sleep and a long days work, i'm back to answer your questions... First from the top

    Spurious: I read your article, but we are going on original intelligence estimates. Its all well and good for us to sit here today and debate those figures, but at the time, those were the figures. At the time, that was the justification for it. Whether or not these are right is always going to be up for debate, whether or not they were accepted by senior US officials is up for debate too, but fact is the bombs were dropped. Going from the estimates, to me it sounds like the lesser of two evils... that is all.

    Your being hypocritical with the insults, so please stop them. Its just being silly.

    Next

    Lucysnow:

    Don't get me wrong their, i don't mean anything malicious in it. I meant effective management by setting up social, health and schooling programs using their funding, which is quite substantial. The palestinian peoplewill have a better way of life and will respect Israel for doing that.

    I just think by splitting the state of Israel you might cause more problems than it is actually worth. By integrating the parties together, you can eliminate such problems before they start and if their could be a common goal between them, this would help quite a fair bit.

    Like i said, a long time from happening, unfortunately...What we need is constructive solutions implemented by all parties involved and the global community. We don't need finger pointing anymore, obviously it hasn't solved very much.

    Next!

    Buffalo and Zakariya: Yeah there was the Herald Sun. The pictures are a sort of slide show thing. Just watch them and you'll see the pics of Hezbollah hiding weapons between buildings
     
  13. funkstar ratsknuf Valued Senior Member

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  14. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Lucysnow , your own post show that there was a warning, read the whole article, I would cut and paste but the article blocks right click, and the target was a British barracks, from what I read of your post it the two incidents are not comparable, other than people died .
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  16. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    samcdkey

    Sam, you should read the articles, no were did I find reference to Bunker Busters containing Depleated Uranium, one article shows what I stated that D.U. is used a anti-armor projectile from medum and large caliber anti armor weapons, The Bunker Buster rely on balistic coeficent to do their job, it is Neuton's laws of motion in aplication

    I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

    II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

    III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    FIREARMS TUTORIAL
    Ballistic coefficient (BC) = SD / I. SD is the sectional density of the bullet, ... small arms projectiles, inluding large caliber rifles and shotguns, ...
    http://medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

    BASIC BALLISTICS
    The ballistic coefficient is significant because it determines the rate at ... As we have seen, a large caliber will permit more energy to be generated than ...
    http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ballistics.htm


    that is how and why they work.
     
  17. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you Geoff for these. i hope your day is going well

    more of the empasis in these documents seem to be laying most guilt on Israel. i will read them further though to get the full picture.

    Thanks again geoff
     
  18. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    Spaceman, hi how are you doing.

    thank you for your time for digging this out but have i missed something!!!

    surely hezbollah would have a couple of Anti aircraft guns around towns to try and defend them. It would be stupid not to espicilaly as the Isralies were bombing bridges, roads and and towns etc..from day 1. And the other picture with a dude holding a gun on a hill hardly supports Hizbollah firing rockets. hell if i tried hard enpugh i could go to London and find some one holding a gun!!!
     
  19. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Sam this is how they made the bunker busters.

    GBU-28 "Bunker-buster" bomb

    DESCRIPTION: This is a 5,000-pound laser-guided bomb that can be dropped by an F-15E. It's designed to penetrate 100 feet of earth and 22 feet of reinforced concrete.

    ANYTHING NEW? This bomb originally was jury-rigged from an 8-inch-wide howitzer barrel.

    After a hasty development, two GBU-28s were rushed to the Gulf and dropped from U.S. Air Force F-111s. New versions have refinements that make them more accurate. Sources say the B-2 bombers at Whiteman Air Force Base have the capability of dropping these "bunker-busting" bombs.
     
  20. crazy151drinker Registered Senior Member

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    Sam,

    1) Japan did not surrender after the first one. As such they dropped another one. Simple really.

    2) The Pentagon admits and its well documented that the US uses DU in its Tanks, Anti-tank APFSDS rounds (120mm) , and various Anti-Armor projectiles (mainly 20mm, 25mm, and 30mm). One site once claimed that we used DU in our 155mm howitzer shells which is completely false.

    3) Guld War verteran studies do point to possible DU contamination- but it is from the various wrecks of Iraqi equipment which were hit by 25mm, 30mm, and 120mm rounds- not bombs. In reference to #2 there are NUMEROUS Army training films that tell soldiers not to make contact with destroyed tanks becuase of possible DU contamination. DU is not some big secret.

    Once again DU is used in Anti-armor munitions, not bombs. There is no point in putting DU in a bomb.

    I hope this helps.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    They did not surrender after the second one either.

    Yeah sure they do.

    Pentagon spokesmen consistently have maintained that depleted uranium is safe for U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians. In May 2003, the Associated Press quoted Lt. Col. Michael Sigmon, deputy surgeon for the U.S. Army￾fs V Corps, saying, "There is not really any danger, at least that we know about, for the people of Iraq." Sigmon asserted that children playing with expended tank shells would have to eat and then practically suffocate on DU residue to cause harm.
    http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/index.cfm/Page/Article/ID/47

    "They gave us a questionnaire. I marked that I wasn't exposed to depleted uranium because nobody had even told us what it was back in Iraq," he said.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/180337p-156686c.html

    The US has also admitted that it has used depleted uranium weaponry over the last decade against bunkers in Iraq, Kosovo, and now Afghanistan.
    Since 1997 the United States has been modifying and upgrading its missiles and guided (smart) bombs. Prototypes of these bombs were tested in the Kosovo mountains in 1999, but a far greater range has been tested in Afghanistan. The upgrade involves replacing a conventional warhead by a heavy, dense metal one (3). Calculating the volume and the weight of this mystery metal leads to two possible conclusions: it is either tungsten or depleted uranium.

    Tungsten poses problems. Its melting point (3,422°C) makes it very hard to work; it is expensive; it is produced mostly by China; and it does not burn. DU is pyrophoric, burning on impact or if it is ignited, with a melting point of 1,132°C; it is much easier to process; and as nuclear waste, it is available free to arms manufacturers. Further, using it in a range of weapons significantly reduces the US nuclear waste storage problem.

    This type of weapon can penetrate many metres of reinforced concrete or rock in seconds. It is equipped with a detonator controlled by a computer that measures the density of the material passed through and, when the warhead reaches the targeted void or a set depth, detonates the warhead, which then has an explosive and incendiary effect. The DU burns fiercely and rapidly, carbonising everything in the void, while the DU itself is transformed into a fine uranium oxide powder. Although only 30% of the DU of a 30mm penetrator round is oxidised, the DU charge of a missile oxidises 100%. Most of the dust particles produced measure less than 1.5 microns, small enough to be breathed in.

    http://www.nukewatch.com/du/200203lemonde.html
     
  22. antifreeze defrosting agent Registered Senior Member

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    the claim was made regarding admission of the use of DU in tank armament, not regarding its health effects. nice avatar by the way.

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  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure the Gulf War soldiers will be grateful for those details.

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    Colonel James Naughton of US Army Materiel Command said Iraqi complaints about depleted uranium (DU) shells had no medical basis.

    "They want it to go away because we kicked the crap out of them," he told a Pentagon briefing.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/2860759.stm

    Thunku
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006

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