Israels admission on Qana shows real object of Lebanon invasion

Israels admits up to Qana LIE

Revealing is that in targeting an area for destruction that no rockets were being fired from, Israel has just proven that the rockets were not a real priority for their invasion of Lebanon .

Taken together with this story, this proves Israels real agenda is not 'self-defense', but conquest.

 

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I could say the same for Hezbollah, who routinely use indescriminate weapons against Israeli cities. So, they made a mistake and hit a non-military target. How does this assist in conquest? If conquest was their goal, military targets would be preferrable.

Again, you refuse to show the complete context:

OK

Admitting mistakes, that's good, right?

Oh, so there were rockets coming from that area in the past. That's different than no rockets at all. Maybe Hezbollah wanted those civilians dead for their PR campaign, it's not like they have any morals.

 

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Wasn't there something about how most of the deaths were from the building collapse, which occurred eight hours after the strike?

Also, the Red Cross was supposed to have posted only 23 deaths, yet Lebanese authorities claimed 50 or so. Any civilian deaths are too many, of course: one hopes this kind of thing would discourage Hezbollah from firing their rockets from civilian areas.

 

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I gave an Israeli newsarticle so there wouldnt be any question from zionist defenders as yourself over the source . However what brought about the admission was the Red Cross .

You see Israel got caught out .

No its not OK to deliberately murder and lie about it .

It wasnt a mistake , no rockets were fired from the building , and Israel being caught out is making up bullshit to get out of it . As HRW says that Southern Lebanon has been turned into a free fire zone

Again it is the Haaretz source and Israel claims that , no proof has been offered , I provided the article to show IDF admission there were no Hezbollah activity , however would like more ? Here Human Rights Watch where they said responsibility for Qana rested "squarely with the Israeli military".

Or was that the Israeli claim ?

Because as the removal of bodies from under rubble takes some time and there is no question now as to how many have died , 54 the worlds media has film of it .

Rockets fired in retaliation to an Israeli aggressive military advance , and remeber Israel started it by

" It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel "

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There was no rocket activity that day, but there had been in the past. So, they were not acting on an immediate threat, which might have been more justifiable, they were acting on intel they gathered in the past.

Yes, the IDF is the immediate cause of civilian deaths, that is not under dispute. That this amounts to murder is not so clear, as it is in the context of a war on Hezbollah. Israel feels this campaign in general is in self-defence, and mistakes happen in war, which Hezbollah is gleefully capitalizing on and perhaps encouraging.

 

Again, no context for your statement, no proper acknowledgement of the complexity of events:

Let me fill you in.

It started on July 12, when the Hezbollah began "Operation Truthful Promise", to capture Israeli soldiers with the goal of a prisoner exchange.

Hezbollah guerrillas crossed the border and launched a surprise attack on two Israeli Humvees, killing three soldiers, wounding two and capturing the two others, the Israeli army said.

Israel quickly sent armored vehicles over the border on a rescue mission, but one of the tanks rolled over a mine, killing the four soldiers inside and sparking a battle that killed another soldier, the army said.
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Wikipedia illustrates the two conflicting accounts:

Beginning of conflict
At 9:05 AM local time, a ground contingent of Hezbollah militants attacked two Israeli armored Humvees on a routine patrol along the Israel-Lebanon border near the Israeli village of Zar'it with anti-tank rockets, abducting two Israeli soldiers, and killing three.[12] Five others were killed later on the Lebanese side of the border on 12 July during a mission to rescue the two captured soldiers. [13]According to the Lebanese police force and Hezbollah, the Israeli soldiers were attacked and captured on the Lebanese side of the border on 12 July during a mission to infiltrate the Lebanese town of Ayta al-Sha`b.[14]
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Haaretz provides this account:
The militants attacked two IDF armored Hummer jeeps patrolling along the border with gunfire and explosives, in the midst of massive shelling attacks on Israel's north. Three soldiers were killed in the attack and two were taken hostage.

Later in the day, four IDF soldiers were apparently killed when their tank hit a mine some 6 kilometers inside Lebanese territory...

Hezbollah said its guerrillas destroyed two Israeli tanks that attempted to cross the border into Lebanon on two different occasions Wednesday.

The IDF had Wednesday afternoon sent troops across the border to search for the missing soldiers, marking the first incursion into Lebanon since the withdrawal in May 2000.

 

Who were they trying to free in this prisoner exchange?

Samir Kuntar Arabic: سمير القنطار‎ (born July 20, 1962 in Aabey, Lebanon), is a Lebanese who participated in a terrorist attack on Israeli civilians in 1979. He has been held in Israeli jails under a four-times-life sentence since his conviction in 1979 on charges of murder and terrorism, for murdering 3 Israeli civilians (a 28-year-old male and his 4-year-old daughter) and killing two Israeli policemen. [wiki]

 

spidergoat:

1. We don't really know whether they were acting on 'intel they gathered in the past'. For all we know, that is merely a weak rationalization to cover their ass. Unless Israel has proof, then there word is worth dog shit on my boot heel.

2. The fact remains that when Israel did bomb that building, there were women and children inside, and no terrorists. I guess you could try claiming that every brown skin is a potential terrorist, but the people inside that building died innocent according to the law, and according to common sense. If they weren't firing rockets, then it's a safe bet to assume that they were civilians.

Quite simply, I don't give a shit about what Israel 'thought'. I do give a shit about what they 'did', and their 'results'. The fact that they murdered women and children, while not even getting one terrorist in the bargain, tells me that they fucked up big time. And that their fuck up is unacceptable.

 

How about the same for Hezbullah?

 

Such mistakes happen in war. That doesn't overrule the justification for the war itself, or prove that the objective is not self-defense. We wouldn't know that there wasn't any rocket fire coming from the building that day if Israel hadn't admitted it, so you wouldn't know if they fucked up at all if not for the word of the IDF.

 

Buffalo:

Why are you bring Hezbollah into this? We're discussing Israel, buddy. Don't try to deflect attention from Israel.

spidergoat:

Such 'mistakes' are not justified. They are strictly against the Geneva Conventions. Either Israel needs to stop targeting civilians, or it needs to get its act together and be a little more precise.

Of course not. Hitler may have had perfect justification for re-united the age old German Empire. That still doesn't justify the numerous atrocities of the Nazis.

Demolishing civilian structures, and then engaging in aerial bombardment which has resulted in a large loss of civilian life, are not acts of self defense. They are vindictive acts of aggression, revenge, and a desire to crush all thought of independence, resistance, and national pride.

You're quite right in that all we have is the IDF's word. However, until an investigation is done into the matter by an IMPARTIAL tribunal, then what actually happened is unknown. What we do know is that there was a massive loss of civilian life. At worst, Israel targeted civilians. At best, they made a military blunder, which is not what you would expect from a professional army with state of the art equipment and intel.

 

So Brian, when are you going to Lebanon to fight for Hezbollah? Have you accepted any Palastinians to live with you yet??

Mountain,

If Hezbollah dresses like Civilians, hides in Civilian areas, shoot weapons from Civilian areas, uses Civilians as human shields- How exactly do you expect there to be a low civilian casualty count? Not to mention we have no real idea how many of those Civilians are Hezbollah being that they do not wear uniforms.

Typical blah blah blah from you two.

 

hizbollah itself identified which of its members have been killed in lebanon.

 

No , Israel backtracked and claimed first up that rockets were fired from that building , and when this version of events was debunked , the claim was that in the village were Hezbollah rocket launching sites and arms dumps . Now the claim is that rockets were fired from there in the past , so now the IDF will hide behind the old " Im so sorry but it was out dated intel mistake " . Sorry I am not buying it .

No I fully uderstand and appreciate the sources of what I post , it is just your plain pig ignorance to stare facts directly in the face and ignore them .

No I will fill you in !
Here are 2 reputable western news sources first Forbes

And now a French source :

TRANSLATION :

See " in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab " now go to a map and where is " Aïta Al-Chaab " ?

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Got it !!! INSIDE LEBANON NOT ISRAEL !!!!

No , no , no get it through your head , The Red Cross , HRW and the UN are all there in Lebanon and are watching what is transpiring Israel cant LIE it is being found out . Israel admitted there were no rockets fored from the building when observers witnessed the event . Whats amazing is Israel backtracking and deliberate deceptive information and your gullability to accept what Israel says . I gave you the benefit of the doubt , I believed you were unbiased in your beliefs as regard to the mideast/Isreal conflict , in fact you are just an apoligist for the theocratic Zionist state . And as for your " right-wing lies cost lives " you are a defender of right wing LIES .

 

Oh this infantile shit again .

Why their homes are in what is now Israel , and if you are so concerned about justice why arent you fighting for their return ?

Typical non-sensical over emotional bullshit from you ....again .

 

LOL

Yeah, thats why there are numerous pictures of Hezbollah fighters wearing civlian clothes in civilian areas.

"Far away as possible"

LOL

You cant honestly believe that. A guerilla group staying away from Civilians...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

All the ground engagements between the IDF , who by the way are seeking out Hezbollah , have been fought away from civilian centres , in the mountains . Or do you have proof that ground fighting is taking place near civilian centres ?

 

I have two websites that mention the strange delay of having a building bombed, then collapsing 8 hours later, and people still being inside it:

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/8997.htm

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/188571.php

In other news, a Lebanese website is blaming Hezbollah for the deaths:

Not at all - a very recent Ynet article indicates that the Red Cross only pulled 28 people out of the wreckage.

Even one of course is too many, but there's no doubt whatsoever that Hezbollah has been encouraging civilian casualties by firing from civilian areas, and from beside UN compounds, such as the one where the four Peacekeepers were killed. Besides being a fairly sick PR tactic, it demonstrates no concern for human life, not even that of other Lebanese.

From the same article:

Pretty much says it all.

Of course the other big problem is that now there seem to be emerging some doubts about the staging of the photos taken by AP:

A British website has a compelling case from the timestamps on the photos that there was quite a great deal of staging of photos, apparently:

AP claims that the pics are released according to news value; but why not simply address all such criticisms by releasing the original time stamps? Why too the posing of the bodies and the guy carrying them?

Wierdest of all, the same guy was seen doing the same thing in 1996.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/who-is-this-man.html

A good question indeed. Who is that guy?

 

Too bad for you. They were indeed firing rockets from there earlier, whether you like it or not. I simply don't buy your "Hezbollah is innocent and their farts smell like roses" facade.

Here Foley makes an interesting error: he deliberately mistranslates the cite on this French article.

CORRECT TRANSLATION:

The paragraph he refers to - where he accepts uncritically the Lebanese version of events - is actually further down.

Incidentally, the above translation suggests that it was Hezbollah that initiated the entire conflict. How coincidental that they had all those missiles stocked up, too.

Actually, that appears to be where the AP story was posted. Foley, please consult the original French article and tell us all where the attack actually occurred. Thanks.

I also note the article was submitted by "Jihad Saqlawi".

Nuff said.

Is that the same Red Cross that only reported 28 casualties, not 54? The same UN that protested ("strongly", even) when Hezbollah repeatedly used half a dozen UN positions to launch attacks?

I hope we're talking about the same organizations here.

 

Utter idiocy, as per usual. Mistakes are permitted; deliberate targetting of civilians - which is Hezbollah's strategy, and Hamas' - is not. Mountainhare's head need a shake.

Because professional armies with state of the art equipment and intel cannot make mistakes, of course.

Circle the arguments; the Zionists are coming.