Martial Arts question.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Dinosaur, Apr 28, 2002.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I have been trying to visualize the above.

    Big biker with hands on Wells' shoulders, pinning him to the wall. Foot comes up from ground and hits chin.

    Was the biker a gorrilla with arms about 150 centimeters ( 60 inches) long?

    I put my hands up against a wall and imagined kicking the wall at a spot between my hands. This is equvalent to what was described above.

    It seems like quite a feat for a person with normal body proportions.
     
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  3. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Bend ze kneez!
     
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  5. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    It still seems strange to me. Stand erect with your hands against a wall at about shoulder height. Now imagine kicking the wall at about the height of your chin.

    I would like to see somebody do this.

    BTW: If the biker was taller than Wells, it seems even more difficult.
     
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  7. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

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    I got it! The dude was amputated at the kneecap, right?
     
  8. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    The biker dude was taller and larger than Wells. Wells was quite an experienced kickboxer and very flexible. I can get my own foot over six feet high from standing straight, but I have to stand about arm's length plus about 6 inches back from the wall. I'm not very flexible at all.
     
  9. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I'll believe it when I see somebody do it.
     
  10. ogster Registered Member

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    someone once told me that buuce-lee didn't like using kicks, as he thought it a too slow attack.
     
  11. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I assume that everybody here knows that the martial arts films use camera technology to make the action look faster than humanly possible.

    I am not sure that the early martial arts films did this, but all the moeern ones do.
     
  12. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    it depends of what you think is humanly possible. When human is in high stress condition he can do amazing things tht are not imaginable in normal state. Run faster thn possible, lift super-heavy things, jump from enormous heights. and tht all is scientifically recorded.

    also- my instructor told he had seen one Taekwon-do master from Korea (one semminar) to do this thing- he was hitting so hard (with his hands) tht it could be heard. As if he hit through air.

    Human has enormous possibilities, only they reveal in high-stress situations or with long and hard training. It has do do much with a state of ones brain. Body somehow switches to imposible state, when all concentration and all available energy is put into one thing.

    and of course this isn't the case about the holiwood movies

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    .. they speed up (Matrix

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  13. Reid Registered Senior Member

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    Saw a dvd a few days ago with best fights from the ultimate fighting championship, almost no kicks at all, just a few aimed low at their legs. Most of the fighters used a mix of boxing and wrestling. I was hoping for fancy kung fu moves though

    try to get hold of Shaolin Soccer for a funny mix of kung fu and Soccer

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  14. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Avatar: Human potential has often been underestimated, but I have never believed some of the stories told about incredible feats by ordinary people under stress.

    I have often heard stories like the one about some woman who lifted a car to free her child who was pinned under it. Such stories are never verifiable. I think some such stories are outright fabrications, while others are based on some truth but exaggerated in the retelling. Perhaps some small compact car was on an incline and a small women was able to make it roll off of her child or husband by pushing it. As the story gets retold, the car gets bigger, the incline is forgotten, and she lifts the car with one hand, using the other to drag the child out from under.

    The main reason I do not believe stories about incredible feats is that all the improvement in sports which can be measured has been incremental. Except for one unusual individual (see below), when a world record is broken it is by a small percentage. Except for one individual, no quantum leaps ever occurred. Yet the stories always tell of a feat unequaled by world class athletes, which would be a huge leap in the abilities of the ordinary person in the story.

    When I was young, there were some estimates of how fast men could run, jump, throw things. Most of those predictions fell short of the current world records. Over the last 50-60 years running records have improved about 5% (100m) to 8% (mile) while the some jumping and throwing events have improved about 20%. Of course, the improvements were done a little at time.

    The above suggests that technique has had a lot to do with the improvement in jumping and throwing, while running techniques were already just about right 50-60 years ago. If it takes 50-60 years for world class athletes to improve 5-20%, I just do not believe in the stories I have heard about extraordinary feats by ordinary people.

    BTW: It probably does not make sense to compare modern times with records from more than 50-60 years ago. For various reasons many excellent athletes never got a chance to compete in the early half of the twentieth century, with racism being only one of the reasons. Also, athletes did not train as much back then, and the training methods were inferior.

    The unusual individual mentioned above was Cornelius Wamberdam, a pole vaulter. When the world record was 14 feet ten inches (4.52 meters), he did 15 feet 8.5 inches (4.79 meters). No other improvement in a world record ever matched this percentage improvement. The current record is 20 feet 2 inches or 6.15 meters (as per year 2000 Almanac), but Wamberdam’s record was never broken. He did it with a bamboo (or maybe an early steel) pole. His record was broken by vaulters using fiberglass poles. The difference in equipment is such that the pole vault is no longer the same event. Those who compete today are a different type of athlete and might have trouble doing 13-14 feet (4.00 to 4.25 meters) with the pole Wamberdam used. Wamberdam might not have been able to do what he did if forced to use a modern fiberglass pole.
     
  15. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Reid: Glad to hear that grappling is effective in a free format competition. I always suspected that it could hold its own with oriental martial arts. I was always pretty sure it could handle a boxer who had no other fighting skills. At least, it was damn effective for me in a few encounters with boxer types, although I cannot claim that the boxer types I encountered were very good at anything they did.
     
  16. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    but in sports it's never high stress situation.... have you noticed tht when a dog or some punk is chasing you, you are capable of incredable speeds (for you) and no tireing... your body switches to emerency power sources and burns calories like mad. and human body can produce much energy
     
  17. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Avatar: Perhaps some people underestimate what they can do. I would expect a non athlete to have little idea of how fast he could run when required to do so.
    When I was young, I could run 800 meters in well under 2 minutes, and could do 100 meters in 12-13 seconds (I was not a sprinter). On the few occasions when forced to run from a really bad situation I had no feeling of running faster than I had ever run before. In fact, I was aware of running slower because the incidents happened years after my last competitive race.

    BTW: If forced to run from trouble, you better not try for top speed unless you only have to run about 100-200 meters to escape. Sprinting uses an anaerobic process which leaves you in terrible condition after about 150 meters at top speed.

    Check the split times for 100 meters. World class sprinters reach their peak speed at about 70-80 meters. The last 20 meters of a 100 meter dash are slower than the previous 20 meters, because the anaerobic process is already causing a problem.
     
  18. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    when in panic you don't count metres

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    and in panic you don't feel pain and don't feel tireness. It shows itself only later
     
  19. ogster Registered Member

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    the reason why u don't feel much pain, and u don't tyre so quickly when ur under stress is that when under stress (being scared) the body reslises more natrual chemicals that give u a quick improvment. so amazing feats may become true, although word by mouth does inhance the story.

    but when u train for long peridos of time, your body gets used to this extra stress and does not relisce these chemicals as often. so a new sprinter on a big stage for the first time, feeling a bit scared may beat an althleat that hes done it many a time before.

    as for kicking, it is usefull if you are fast enough and are experinced enough to know what you are doing. althought i havent seen meny people teach kicks in kung-fu styles
     
  20. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I have a question: you saw the movies where they beat up on each other for fave minutes. I don't know very much, but unless you pull the blows, I don't see how someone could not be flat on the ground after 2-3 roundhouse kicks to the head. Is this type of endurance possible, let alone practical?
     
  21. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

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    Truley depends on where the kicks were aimed/how high they were. A not very strong well placed kick can end someone quickly.
     
  22. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    With fear as a motivator, you might not notice pain.

    However, if you attempt to run at top speed, you will slow down before you run 100 meters, and will be unable to run at all after about 150-200 meters.

    You may not feel pain, but the anaerobic energy process used for sprinting will build up waste products from a combustion process and make your leg muscles almost useless in about 8 to 15 seconds. The anaerobic process creates waste products much faster than your blood stream can remove them.

    Any claims to the contrary are nonsense. I have heard this type of myth many times, but never seen any real evidence of extraordinary performance under stress, fear, or emotional motivation.

    If any of the stories were true, there would be some scientific documentation instead of anecdotes.
     
  23. ~The_Chosen~ Registered Senior Member

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    All that Tae Kwan Doe and karate is CRAP

    Not even boxing is good because of lack of lower body skill. (Well Tyson could kill alot of people in one punch

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    Brazalian Jiu Jitsu rules, any form of wrestling will beat any other martial arts. I wrestle, I have fought and i know. That jump kicking crap is useless.

    Watch Ultimate Fighting the first 10 series. You'll see exactly what I mean.
     

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