Asguard, I never said that *anything* else being taught to a child is wrong. In fact, I said My point of contention comes with the fact that parents force their own religion on their children, and I just don't agree with this. Ethics and morals are somethng completely different. They are mandatory to living a quality life, not walking all over other people, not raping, killing and so forth. That's just showing respect for yourself and others, but religion is in a class by itself. For instance, let's assume that there is some kind of absolute truth. Let's say (for example's sake) that Islam turns out to be the one and only true path to God. All those children that were baptised that day are now damed to hell, because they are Christian and in Islam, if you worship any being besides Allah, and Allah alone, you are going to hell. Christianity worships a trinity (father, son and holy ghost). Those little kids, whose parents made them become Christian through that ceremony have damed them forever. My point is that each individual should be able to decide for themselves, when they attain the age of reason, what path they are going to take. Regardless of religious beleifs though, all of humanity should be taught basic ethics and morals.
I agree although i dissagree with being told what my higher morals are (by higher i mean more complicated, example on abortion, i think that the girl makes a dission to have sex, the unborn child dosen't, so i think abortion is wrong, mum on the other hand thinks im a sexest prick, difference of opinions) I think most things should be left up to a child with there parents only giding Another example is politics, mum is a labor surporter and dads a libral (although he is more likely to chose the best person than vote a paticular party), so i have learned (by lisserning to them argue) that politics is firstly important and tgo chose carefully, most people my age chose a guy they like rather that the guy with the best policys (for them OR for others)
Well it appears this thread has just come down to you and I, brother Asguard Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Ohh well, that's cool, I'm still enjoying it. I do too. I think, though, that parents have a responsability to teach *basic* human morals. You know, the Golden rule and all that. But it does get tricky, because when you are a parent, you tend to want to teach your children how *you* feel about everything (politics, religion, philosophy, etc). This is where I feel most parents go wrong. We have to remember that we are all individuals, with our own minds, tastes and personal perspectives (even children). I only have one child, and I love him dearly. Sure, in the back of my mind I sometimes think "I want him to be like me" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! , but that's just my ego talking. In reality, I try to guide him to stay out of danger and trouble, but I don't try to teach him how to think like me, or hold the same opinions as me. If I wanted that, I would have built a robot! lol. I do explain to him where I'm comming from but then try to guide him to find the answers for himself. If more parents took this approach, I think there would be less conflict between them and their siblings. Open, two-way communication is the key to *any* good relationship, whether it's a business partner, lover, child or friend. I totally agree!
noktvs You know you killed the thread You agreed with me You cant do that We have nothing to debate nowPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Damn! I hate when that happens!! Ohh, I'm sure we can think of something. Give me a day or two.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Ok. If I understand you correctly, you have been trying to argue that religion really isn't that bad. I have been trying to argue that it is bad. So, here are some more reasons I feel this way: 1) the Inquisition 2) Jihad 3) promoting fanatical intolerence of other religions/ways of life 4) repression of social progress 5) repression of natural instincts in humanity 6) promotion of obedience to a hiearchy 7) use of fear and guilt to control the masses 8) stunting of creative expression I'm sure there's more, but you get my point.
Yes you have it right Some reasons its good It promotes hope promotes understanding promotes forgiveness and tolerance even helps promote help of poor and those less fortunate yes bad things have been done in the name of religion but most of them were done to preserve a PERSONS power. Most of the time "religiouse" wars are purly political not religiouse at all
"It promotes hope promotes understanding promotes forgiveness and tolerance even helps promote help of poor and those less fortunate" First of all... What the hell are you talking about promotes tolerance??? Don't quote scripture here, show us actual real life examples! Religion has hindered tolerance. How are the gays making out in the U.S.? Who thinks they shouldn't have equal rights? The Christians! So much for tolerance. Second of all, hope and understanding. Religion definetly gives hope to people. The sad part is, religion definetly gives hope to people. I'm a firm believer that if you're using religion as your hope, religion is a crutch. You should be able to find hope and understanding without religion.
Well, in theory some churches promote tolerance of other beliefs and such. In reality, or in practice, many promote ignorance of all philosophies other than their own. I'm sure the christian bible, for example, contains many passages regarding how bad it is to worship others.
That is what most Indians felt about Hare Krishnas but were afraid to speak out. Let me explain: When Chaitanya started his movement, he attracted a lot of lazy people who ignored all their responsibilities to family and society and joined the cult. A lot of families lost their bread winning capabilities. The cult first turned into a cult of beggers that operated on parasitic principles. Today, the cult probably have evolved into a main stream society... IMHO, religion grew out of ignorance and darkness. Science is slowly peeling the layers towards knowledge and light... but has some ways to go....(not all the answers) So, is religion really so bad? The answer is same as "is ignorance bliss?" Depends on your POV, I suppose....
First off i have NEVER quoted sciptur. I once quoted the caticisam of the catholic church because it was relivant to the topic Real life examples er Hate to push how good i am but ME maybe i was brought up catholic and i am tolerant Yes gays can't recive communion and we are not surpost to use contraception but that will change eventully Im sorry to quote this but its what i try to live by I could never live up to that but i try
Asguard, "It promotes hope promotes understanding promotes forgiveness and tolerance even helps promote help of poor and those less fortunate " On hope, see my initial post in this thread On understanding, my question is understanding of what? The dogamtic opinions of the Church Fathers, Preachers, etc? On tolerance, I have to agree with Tyler here, religion absolutely hinders the promotion of tolerance. It breeds hatred and distrust of all those who do not believe the same as you. And agian like Tyler stated, what about gays? You admit that the Church doesn't allow them to take communion but that it will "change eventually" Don't you think 2000 years is long enough? On charity. Ok, I'll give you this one. Religion does promote charity, but charity exsists without religion as well. Think of all the work humanist organizations have done in this field. ~Noktvs
Asguard, By me answering yes to your questoin "is religion REALLY so bad?" does not mean I feel it is the "root of all evil". I have brought up various points concerning religion that I feel are negative aspects of it. *Maybe* because of your religous nature you tend to see things in the context of absolute good and absolute evil? I see things differently. It's not that cut and dry. And this is another point about religon that I dislike. It promotes a mentality of "Us and Them". Very dualistic. Heaven and Hell, God and Satan, Believer and Infidel. There's generally no room for shades of grey. I was just debating a Christian on another forum who claims that before Judaism there was no religion. Now that's not only closed minded, but it's just straight up ignoring the facts of history. I asked, what about Shamanism, Hinduism, Taoism, Voudo, Egyptian religion, Sumerian religion? He had no response. The point is that because of his religious beliefs, he is unwilling to even consider any of the paths that fall outside of the tradition he practices as valid, or that they even exsisted. Just goes to show yet again how religion breeds intolerance. I'm not saying that you are doing this, but I'm using it as another example of a person coming from a religious perspective that I have seen before and it's another reason why I think religon is "bad", especially any form of fundamentalism.
