Certainly crazy, but metakrons last post makes a lot of sense: Ickes "reptiles" are simply a metaphor for the stupid rulers of our civilisation. If I read that correctly?
Hamster, you read that pretty much correctly. I believe, unlike a lot of people, that there is some small possibility that the reptilians actually exist, being unable to rule them out. I have trouble wrapping my mind around the inhumanity that seems to be contrived to terrify people and control them. Seems to be, hell. It is contrived. I'm saying 99 percent plus contrived. Actual reptilians would be superfluous. Their function is already adequately fulfilled. What some of them believe about themselves is in question. In some ways, what looks like a lizard, slithers like a lizard, hisses like a lizard, and carries gram-negative bacteria in the crud on its teeth is most likely a lizard. Crazy people see these realities because they have usually been forced to become more intimately familiar than most of us with the nature of these creatures. A contrived reality is still a reality. Biologically, scientifically, materialistically, these creatures are technically human. These facts make little difference when their behavior is as that of an alien lizard creature from Hell. God help me, though, I can't figure out how, if there were such creatures, they couldn't just coexist peacefully and enjoy the sunlight. Those who believe certain things about themselves also are inspired to shove aside other humans and replace them with their "own kind."
Not a metaphor. Icke has stated in a few of his books that they ARE reptiles from another dimension and have been observed to shape shift back to their natural form. They also drink fresh blood from sacrificed babies (and apparently has personal testimony from an ex-member of the Queen's household). To state that you'd have to define the "natural" limits of human behaviour and attitudes - and then show that these "lizards" fall outside of these limits. History (and in some cases personal experience) shows that humans are pretty much capable of anything. World leaders or not... one example is the woman who, after her children were asked not climb into the neighbour's garden by the wife next door actually petrol-bombed that house to get back at them for "telling her kids off". Not what I'd call a rational (or even proportional) response, but she thought it was warranted.
It is true enough that no species could conceive of any worse behavior than that which humans are capable of. Reptilians could blend in because their behavior would not give them away.
I'm sorry; are you actually debating the existence of giant intelligent lizards walking around among us?
Actually, quite a bit stranger; this is particularly true given that we have evidence of the former, and none of the latter.
Geoff, if you look back on the thread, you will see that it may be wise to clarify which is the former and which is the latter. Those who wish to push a "dialectical materialism" view of the universe might find it more effective to comport themselves as professionals, or at least as individuals who understand the value of courtesy. There is something about the knee-jerk emotional reactions that people display when defending their view of "reality", those who think of themselves as members of the establishment, that just screams emotional insecurity and poor knowledge of their own subject. This includes the typical derision of allegedly strange points of view. Such habits are useful to those who do not want the establishment view to be challenged. They are needful because so many such views cannot honestly face any honest challenge. The establishment side always devolves into derision, dishonesty, even intimidation and if possible silencing. The sum of this touches on what we are doing here. The idea that there is no such thing as shapeshifting aliens is harder to debunk when we have an establishment that makes such a habit, even institutionalizes the habit of undermining its own credibility by taking every opportunity it gets to behave unprofessionally and discourteously. This seems as good a place as any for such a speech. Fantastical notions such as shapeshifting aliens may well gain their only credibility from the lack of character of those who deny them and the poor quality of the denials. The establishment is not innocent in all of this. It has its own pretenses, delusions, and deliberate deceptions by the big lots. Those who want to define reality for the rest of us need to clean up their acts.
Oli, my personal belief is that the shapeshifting aliens to not exist. This belief is not based on any actual proof. It is really not based on much of anything except feeling that it hasn't been proven to me adequately. Also, frankly, I have no way of knowing which of the dominant characters in the craziness that has been my life is more or less likely to tell me the real truth about the nature of things. The ones who do not seem to be crazier than bedbugs simply admit that they don't really know either. Once again, human behavior can give a rational mind some irrational beliefs. See history. There are real limits to the perfectibility of understanding of what goes around us. Outside of those limits is everything.
There is this thing when some a-holes tried to pie David Icke in the face. They showed the a-hole's attitudes. I found it funny that they were calling Icke all these names like arrogant and so forth. But the attitude of these a-holes was completely arroant, and anything but people that I would want to be anywhere near. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2912878405399014351&q=david icke http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1505950948532590200&q=david icke
Well, there are certain tolerances to courtesy. Leprechauns, elves and giant talking lizards simply don't exist; there is, at the very least, no evidence for them and if we're going to argue the basis of things that have no evidence I might as well advance the theory that the proliteriat is controlled by unhappy pixies. It is a non-theory, a useless directive. There is simply only so much of that that a rational, constructed mind can absorb before spewing back irritated invective. You mean the poor knowledge and emotional insecurity that comes from dealing with people who think there are giant lizards in human suits walking among us? You mean the typical derision of people who think there are giant lizards in human suits walking among us? You mean the establishment view that there are not giant lizards in human suits walking among us? I suppose that makes me an antidisestablishmentarian. You mean the honest challenge of proving that there are giant lizards in human suits walking among us? Has that challenge been addressed in any way? What is this cry for honest acceptance of challenges for theories that have no proof whatever? Why is the onus on the disbeliever? For extraordinarily dumb ideas; yes, indeed. And not only the establishment, but also me. So - you wish to 'debunk' (!) the 'idea' (! as if it just emerged from nowhere to counter the perfectly credible claim that there are giant lizardoids living among us, rather than the reverse) that there are no such things as shapeshifting aliens living among us. Well, of course one ought to 'debunk' such a ludicrous claim! Naturally there are shape-shifting aliens among us! I myself have admitted to being one. You mean, in dealing with people who think there are giant lizards in human suits walking among us? Say it isn't so. Yes, the 'Pseudoscience' section of SciForums strikes me also as the best place for this argument. Or the next best place after the 'Cesspool'. So the denials - oh, so poorly founded in utter, base reality - will only increase the credibility of the argument that there are space-reptiles living among us, wearing human disguises. You're not Happeh, by any chance, are you? Er - I couldn't agree more, but drastically in reverse.
Technically evolution suggests that birds came from reptiles but evolved, if thats the case then Parrots are related to lizards and they can "Mimic" sounds (although not piece together sentences to actually communicate) Perhaps it's possible for there to have been a mimicking reptile at some point in the past. (But this doesn't conclude that Icke's got any truth's in his word soup)
Geoff, a critical listener, in possession of the faculties of a sane person, sees no reason for those who, charged with being blood drinking lizards, to engage in behavior that is the mark of liars. To be fair and truthful, the impression that those charged are acting like liars may be mistaken. It isn't always mistaken, though. We're stuck between the claim being true and the idea that some of those accused wanting us to believe that it is true. There are a lot of people who think it is more credible that our leaders are largely shape-shifting lizards than that humans would engage in certain behaviors, too. We have the problem that we can only rule out the lizards theory on the assumption that they are physically impossible. This is an assumption that would be invalidated by sufficiently advanced technology. I would have to assume that such technology is not available here, and I cannot make that assumption either. Still, irrationally, I don't believe that those reptilians exist. I think that they are just human psychopaths. That's my bias speaking, not the evidence.
Icke has spent nearly twenty years of his life proclaiming a new-age dogma, stirred it up with some bizarre, controversial conspiracy theories and then blended in some vague facts and allegations. For those that has actually read his books will find some theories to be true, and some theories to be pure myth and/or false. It's as simple as that. The funny thing about this conspiratory circus, is that it has become BIG business. His stories of freemasonry, new world order, illuminati, mind control, frequences of dimensions and extra-terrestrial reptilian world leaders has engaged a LOT of people in uncertain times where trust in government has become an alienated expression. These are former hippies and their sons and daughters, and they want the current world situation overthrown into the hands of the good shepherds. The fact is, these people, like so many other religious people worldwide, needs a higher cause to fill their lives with. And they are willing to pay for it. Big bucks. Icke currently charges over a hundred bucks per show, and his books gets into the hands of a new sucker every day. He's also selling audio and video tapes and dvd's. And he's not the only one doing this. New age is the ultimate liberal religion of this day, mixing old worldviews with new. It is gaining followers everyday, and my belief is that soon these people and/or other religious zealots will bash together to overthrow the skeptics, proclaim victory and world government when powerfull enough, call for their deity to summon itself and celebrate their victory, but, unfortunately, nothing will happen. No change in DNA, no exposure of reptilian E.T's, no God shepherding the herd, no universal secets exposed, nothing. Well, nothing other than filthy wealthy and immensely powerfull religious and spiritual leaders gloating and laughing over the stupidity and naivity of the masses.
I think that some of the religious and spiritual leaders genuinely believe that they are using their followers for purposes that are pure and productive. One reason I have trouble with the idea of getting involved in these things is because if I wind up believing my own rhetoric then I could be lost myself. As we've seen, a lot of them just don't care. But what do you do when you need mass action for something that you believe is absolutely necessary?
That's the magic, MetaKron. You believe it to be the right action to make. And I don't doubt the sincerity of some spiritual leaders, some live in poverty and dedicate their lives to helping others, but I don't think most conspiracy theorists do. The sad thing is all the good people being mislead, although for allegedly good, higher purposes. Blind faith in authority figures is never a good thing.
But you can't reveal wrongdoing by government or business anymore without someone labelling you as a conspiracy theorist. Once a person realizes that they do this to cover up things that are far too certainly true, then the whole "conspiracy theorists are nuts" thing is just a part of the coverup. Even if its "most conspiracy theorists", that just means to me that people have been far too convinced to go along with the lines fed them by government and don't have the scientific literacy to actually know anything about an issue.
But there's a basic difference between theory and facts. If someone suspects a company bribing government officials, it will be investigated. Conspiracy theories that deals with issues on a larger, global scale will eventually have to provide facts. A theory aint halfway enough. And there has got to be a certain issue, a certain suspect, not vague claims. And when the theories are about extra-terrestrial reptiles, facts are needed more than ever.
