Lioness in zoo kills man who invoked God

Always the extreme justification in defense of their creed that feels anachronistic and bureaucratic!

 

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Not really following you. Don't we have a responsibility to warn people against their own stupidity?

 

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well to make that stament correctly it should be

The test proves that God didn't, or wouldn't, or couldn't, or isn't willing to save people from their own stupidity

 

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Actually, I prefer tigers.

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Eh? How do you know when someone is being stupid?

Maybe they are just bold, or have some particular insight, or ...

 

A man shouting that God would keep him safe was mauled to death by a lioness in Kiev zoo after he crept into the animal's enclosure ... an "animal island" protected by thick concrete blocks.​

You're right, this man was a brave, misunderstood genius...

 

don't you find it sort of funny that jesus apparently says at the end of mark - "these are the signs that accompany believers", but then somewhere else says "don't try to test this, because you'll end up dead." that doesn't make sense, why tell believers that they will have these abilities, and then tell them not to use them, or even try to find out if they have them. thats ridiculous and awful.

in addition to that, the passage you quote is from the Old Testament, which i have come to see is apparently not as credible in the eyes of christians as the new testament is. if it were, we'd have people killing non-believers like deuteronomy says to. cherry pick all you like, the bible is useless.

 

Because half the shit in the Bible Jesus didn't say...

 

But the impression I get is of your own stupidity—your own limited scope—and projecting, or trying to squeeze so much exhaustive and elaborate detail pertaining to actuality into so little space—the printed word. It seems to me that much must be overlooked. Or ignored. Or swept under the rug when no one's looking. Justifying life, or yourselves?

I mean, the scope of a living detailed circumstance, the very components that interlink experience with personal and impersonal phenomena which in turn respond, consciously or not, to one's dynamic environment, an environment which is dependent or interdependent or not dependent at all on many more factors.

 

Do you, can you, take the rest of actuality into account also?

 

That's because there's a difference between a sign (which you have no control over) and an ability (which you can exercise and "test").

Exodus 23:9, Lev. 19:34, Deut. 10:19 - all say the same thing: "you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt." I'm not sure what passage you're referring to? (edit: 1 Corinthians 10 is in the New Testament, so I presume you mean the event the passage refers to?).

 

I'm reminded of a passage from one of the Discworld novels, I think it was Light Fantastic or Colour of Magic...

"...like a man standing on a hilltop in wet copper armor, shouting all gods are bastards".​

 

how convenient. are you sure that the word sign is really the word sign? or was it just another one of those instances where we translated idiomatic hebrew into overly literal greek?

your passage was indeed in the NT.

however, the passage from deutoronomy that i'm referring to that you don't know about is as follows:

Deu. 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;


Deu 13:7 [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth;


Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:


Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.


Deu 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

in the gospel of thomas jesus says: "Blessed is the lion which the man eats, and the lion will become man; and cursed is the man whom the lion eats, and the lion will become man.

though another translation says "and cursed is the man whom a lion eats so that the man becomes a lion!"

there is: "thou shalt not kill!"

 

that's not even a commandment, read exodus.

 

No, in this case it's just the difference between the word "sign" and the word "ability", or gifts - there are plenty of other places where believers' gifts are outlined, and they don't include protection from danger. Seems straightforward enough to me.

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."​

The reason here is obviously that they "entice thee secretly" and "sought to thrust thee away from the LORD" - not that they believe differently or are non-believers, as you said. And as you can see, it pertains to the Israelites themselves.

 

If one already believes in God, then surely one can apply this, and not (want to) put God to the test.

But one who doesn't believe and would like to find out -- how is one to know?

 

Maybe he was. Someone bold enough to actually ask God to finally show some proof of Himself, instead of leaving us to delusion.

 

well, it seems pretty unstraightforward. signs that you are a believer include being able to heal people, immunity to poison and snakes, but you shouldn't try to find out whether you have them, they'll just show up - ie: don't go out and try to heal people if you think your belief is true, just wait and see if it happens by accident and then you'll know. take a step back and think of how fucking stupid that sounds. jesus didn't think that people would want to know if they qualified as a true believer or not, but he went ahead and enumerated the criteria for them, hoping that they wouldn't try to test it out? absurd.

oh i see, what you are saying is that if somebody attempts to convert you, you should kill them. and it doesn't just apply to the israelites, because the christians accept the god of judaism as the same god that manifested itself in christ. who do you think the first christians were - descendents of israelites. but you can try to weave your way around it all you want. i love watching a christian try to justify why certain of god's statement's are more important than other's in convenient instances.

 

by the way, here's the rest of that passage from deutoronomy:

Deu 13:12 If thou shalt hear [say] in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,


Deu 13:13 [Certain] men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;


Deu 13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, [if it be] truth, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought among you;


Deu 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.


Deu 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.


Deu 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;


Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do [that which is] right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.