The Drug War: Are We Winning?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by PolitikalOverthrow, May 26, 2006.

  1. PolitikalOverthrow Registered Member

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    For many years, the United States and countless other nations have been fighting an everlasting war upon drugs. Are they winning or loosing. I believe we are loosing. In rural parts of the United States meth is running rampant. In South American countries more drugs are being pumped out every year. In Europe, cities such as Amsterdam and Barcelona have become some of the world's largest havens for addicts and dealers.
     
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  3. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    We had a war and we all lost.
     
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    To whom are you referring as "we"? A giant portion of the population does not side with the government on this absurd issue, and we will ultimately prevail.

    This topic pops up every month or so on SciForums, and the ensuing discussions invariably show that the consensus here is overwhelmingly against government policy.

    You can and should go back over those threads. To sum up:

    1. Legal recreational drugs--tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine--are by most measures worse than the prohibited ones. Addictiveness, damage to mental and physical health, violence, social costs.

    2. Prescription drugs are about ten times as dangerous as illegal drugs. Deliberate misuse, patient error, pharmacist error, doctor error, unexpected reaction, and documented side effects.

    3. The evils ascribed to illegal drugs are, for the most part, the result of the prohibition rather than the first-order effects of the drugs themselves. The inevitable black market brings higher prices, poor quality control, overdoses, crime, gang turf wars, police corruption, casual disrespect for the law, gateway to harder drugs, use of relatively immune-from-prosecution children as runners, and the emergence of gangsters as more prosperous role models than honest working people.

    4. Most "drug-related" deaths and incidents of unacceptable behavior also involve large quantities of alcohol.

    5. The European trend toward decriminalization has been hugely successful. Amsterdam has always had a large drug culture and it's no more pervasive or troublesome than in Vancouver or San Francisco. Spain and Catalonia are still adjusting to life after despotism and newly freed people always act a little crazy.

    6. Regardless of how any American citizens feel about the issue, the government does not have the Constitutional authority to regulate what they put into their bodies. This was well known ninety years ago, when proper legal procedure was observed and a Constitutional amendment was passed allowing the government to prohibit the use of alcohol. (Which was repealed rather quickly and the people of Utah cast the deciding vote.) Today the government spits on the Constitution and does whatever the hell it feels like, and nobody cares.

    This is the real evil of the War on Drugs, more than all of the otherwise responsible citizens who are in prison or blacklisted from their jobs for something they did off duty and in private. The War on Drugs has created a culture in which people no longer respect the Constitution. It is this that will bring about the downfall of America, not drug use.

    BTW, today's Washington Post reported the results of the definitive government medical study on marijuana, which determined that it doesn't even cause lung cancer.
     
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  7. RoyLennigan Registered Senior Member

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    the war on drugs is a war that could never be won, no matter how hard anyone tried. because people will always do drugs, just as people have always been doing drugs in the past. drugs are merely chemicals which affect how our body acts. drugs are the pill you buy from your doctor to help you get better. drugs are the chemicals in the food you eat everyday. drugs are chemicals in the very air you breath. drugs are the plants and refined chemicals that certain humans take to expand the limitations of the mind. drugs are circumstantial and unavoidable.

    and we are not loosing the war on drugs. we are winning, from my point of view. we are winning because i am an advocate of drugs and the drug community is stronger than ever.

    i would like to see the DEA taken apart and the money spent on public education (especially in areas where drugs are abused). i would rather see people being educated (not told what to do, but told what certain actions will bring about and letting them decide for themselves) than being thrown in jail.

    the best wat to solve a problem is not to reprimand, but to show how an action can cause a reaction, and letting them choose what should be done with the knowledge they have. cities such as amsterdam have become much more safer than places like new york or seattle because they have stopped groundless oppression of a lifestyle. by allowing these drugs, they stop underground dealers and the crime that comes with them. the bring increase to the economy and decrease to criminals.

    the only reason we haven't decriminalized drugs like marijuana or lsd is because of tradition and a general misunderstanding of what these drugs entail.
     
  8. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Heh, don't forget about Alberto Gonzales' War on Porn, which was his first major action taken when he was elected Attorney General.

    - N
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    How about the War on Poverty? LBJ launched that.
     
  10. spiritual_spy SN0W_F0X Founder Registered Senior Member

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    The war on drugs is just a part of a larger war. (IE Gangs)
     
  11. PolitikalOverthrow Registered Member

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    fraggle, drugs like cocain, marajuana, and meth are extremely dangerous. moreso than nicotine or alcohol. The reason less people die from illegal drugs is because of the very fact that they are illegal. cocain and marajuana make people basicly temporarily mentaly ill, and though alcohol does the same, marajuana and cocain have much worse effects in the long run. Meth is also extremely dangerous to make, thus the labs constantly blow up. u have seen what meth does to people, right? they get to the point where if there is no meth, they will pick at their skin and eat it because it leaves a residue on them. it makes their teeth rot. They stop caring about anything except getting more and more drugs.

    once on the news, it was reported that a mother had been brewing up some meth in her trailor when it blew up. when the firemen got their, they found her and took her to the hospital. her two kids died. when she woke up, the first thing the said was "I need a joint"
     
  12. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Well, you gave good reasons for being anti-meth, which I'm sure most of us are in agreement with, however, you're still on the "OMG Mary Jane is Evil" bandwagon.

    Why is marijuana bad for us?

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    - N
     
  13. PolitikalOverthrow Registered Member

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    It gives a false sence of euphoria. This can often times be very dangerous. It is more addictive than nicotine or alcohol. It's effects are much more profound and noticable.
     
  14. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    LoL, please cite which rapid anti-drug website you've read that from. Or was this just something your mommy or teacher told you?

    - N
     
  15. PolitikalOverthrow Registered Member

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    This is something I discovered over the course of 3 years when my best friend was an addict.
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    As no one has commented on even one of Fraggle's point's and his thoughtful, baddly needed, post is being pushed down, I reply to it and after it I give idea I have pushed for years to help with the more serious / truly harmful illegal drugs that IMHO should remain illegal.
    In this day when most purchases are with check or credit cards, which leave records, why not get rid of all paper money? We would still like and need to have some cash to buy minor items, like a hamburger etc, but that could be coin.

    If there were no paper bills, the local small-volume sales of illegal drugs could be made with a hand FULL of coins. I am trying to make life hell for the wholesaler of drugs, the ones now using suitcases full of $100 bills.

    Drugs are "dense value items," but a $1000 in silver dollars weigh about 55 pounds and fill several shoe boxes if thrown in lose. It would be much easier to stop the flow of silver dollars out of US* than to stop the flow of drugs into US. Why not do this?, after as Fraggle suggests, making the marijuana and perhaps a few other “soft drugs” legal. We should be more rational in the choice of addictive drug that are legal. - For example, make nicotine delivery systems illegal, except by prescription, as they kill millions and greatly add to your medical insurance cost, even if you do not smoke, etc.
    ------------------------------------------
    *To move only a million dollars, which is very small change for the illegal drug industy, that is 24 tons or you need a dozzn two ton trucks! Even the dumbest of border control systems can notice these trucks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2006
  17. PolitikalOverthrow Registered Member

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    Marijuana can be just as dangerous as meth and cocaine.
     
  18. I don't know It's the pun police, run! Registered Senior Member

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    While it's certainly true that marijuana and hashis can eff you up quite a bit, alcohol is much worse in that regard. Shame we can't legislate moderation :l
     
  19. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    I dunno if they've tried moderation, but prohibition certainly didn't work...
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    why do you think this? In sufficient quanity almost anything can kill you. For example, drinking approximately 3.5 gallons of pure water evey day for several days will so strongly imbalance the electrolites in your blood that your heart will stop. Thus surely marijuana can kill you, but I have ever heard of any one dying from it. (A lady trying to "purify herself" did die of water poisoning a few years ago.)
     
  21. RoyLennigan Registered Senior Member

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    i guess thats why not a single person has ever died from smoking marijuana.
     
  22. DJ Erock Resident Skeptic Registered Senior Member

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    Overthrow,

    If your friend was addicted to marijuana for 3 years, it was his own fault. Marijuana has no physically addicting effects, any addiction is psycholigical only.
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    No it can't. People who go ever the edge while they're stoned are also drinking huge amounts of alcohol. The same is true of most recreational drugs for that matter. The government has made them artificially expensive by relegating them to the black market, so people make the decision to use a little less of the drug they really want and compensate by getting drunk.

    The other problem with the black market is that there is no quality control. Some batches are not refined to the proper concentration and make it easy to overdose. Others are mixed with other ingredients to inflate the weight because the primary ingredient is in short supply or just to cheat the customer. For decades now, powder cocaine has been padded with stimulants like amphetamine, which is a much worse drug than cocaine to be sucking up all night. People who remember coke from the 1950s and 60s say that the stuff on the street today feels more like a high from the other kind of Coke.

    As several people have pointed out, no one has ever died from using marijuana and it's been around a lot longer than most other drugs. You can't say that about alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine, much less Prozac.
     

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