Hmm, maybe I’ve missed your point. Are you being serious; I’m not sure. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! My point is that, as always happens when people argue against banning smoking, there have been some people in this thread who have tried to compare the wish to see smoking banned to wishing to see other inconsequential behaviours banned, thus attempting to argue that banning smoking is nonsensical. I do not see these as being equal and regard such arguments as illogical. Smoking hurts a lot of people, both directly and indirectly. Taking Australia as an example, a Commonwealth Government report estimates that in 1998-99 tobacco accounted for $21 billion, or 60%, of the adverse costs of drugs to individuals, business and government. Smoking is the direct cause of 70% of all lung cancers as well as a contributing cause to numerous other cancers and cardiopulmonary diseases. The health and monetary benefits to society of banning smoking would be immense. Now, how can people try to compare this to the banning of inconsequential human behaviors that have little if any impact on other people? Or for that matter, behaviours that do have a minor impact on other people?
I was disagreeing with the parent poster by illustrating a subjective idea applied (in context) to the group as a whole.
where to start lol first, to quit smoking is not easy...or at least not easy for all. you have your heavy smokers, light smokers, social smokers, etc. however, the patch, he gum, the pill are available (and mind you the "quitting smoking" industry makes a lot of money and would probably not support a ban on the sale of tobacco products). my point is, for those of us who need a crutch (LeeDa I am looking in your direction) it is there. If you want it to work it will. Yes, I still smoke. I love to smoke. I blame myself for picking up such a bad habit. I have always know of the repercussions of this decision, and I am always the first to point and laugh at myself for being such a fucking baby about it. Next, second hand smoke blah blah fucking blah. I'm from the camp that sure it can't be good, but I don't believe if you walk past me on the street while I am exhaling that I am killing you. If a nonsmoker lives with a smoker for many years, they are at risk. I am convinced I am killing my cat. But that's between me and my cat, so quit yer bitchin'. As for banning the sale of tobacco...wise up. Big tobacco is..erm big business. I don't ever foresee such a ban, and in the highly unlikely event that there were, people would not stop smoking. Tobacco would just be sold in an underground market. Pot and cocaine are illegal (speaking from a US standpoint), but I can get that shit anytime I like if I so desire. There are bans on smoking. I hate to admit I am not knowledgeable as to how far this has stretched, but I live in a state where I cannot smoke in a club where I'm drinking (that's a real pisser), a restaurant, or 50 feet in front of any entrance to any building. It sucks. Made me not want to leave the house at first. But alas, you get used to it, and I do thankfully get out of my house. Again, no need to be a freakin baby about the whole thing. I don't disagree with the world adopting a more healthful viewpoint, but lecture me about it and I'll kick your ass. And yet another favorite argument of mine (she just keeps going lol)...if you can't handle it, why should I suffer. Maybe I don't want to quit now...or ever. So because you do, I should?? Screw that. I like to play video games. Sometimes I wanna just shoot people, so I choose to do so in a digital outlet. People take issue with this becuase their poor, innocent, and apparently dumb kids may take it too seriously or be damaged psychologically for life. They try to get them banned. I realize this is an entirely different issue, but the premise is the same. I don't have kids. So fuck off and take care of your own damn kids, and leave me alone so I can shoot people because I am old enough to know the difference between the real world and a make believe one. Lastly, trolling? hahahah LeeDa, when is it you are going to reveal the public interest group running this anti-tobacco sales campaign that you're apparently lobbying for? =P oops, not lastly...out of curiosity, is it too hard to condense each of your thoughts, LeeDa, into one post? Just struck me as odd lol *lights up a smoke and exhales in your face* oh, and a sidenote...there is proof that second-hand strawberry aroma is harmful. lmfao that argument made my day! 2 words (that I in no way take credit for, just reiterating what it is you hopefully have learned lol): personal responsibility (finally, she's done lol)
My, such skilled rebuttal. (<--- sarcasm ) Strawman argument. Exposure to second smoke whilst walking past you on the street is not the issue despite your diversionary attempts to make it one. Constant exposure to high levels of carcinogenic second hand smoke in pubs, bars, restaurants, the work place and in the home is the issue. As you correctly pointed out, there have been positive strides made in banning smoking in some of these places, but it is only the starting point. At least you have admitted that your second hand smoke isn't good for other people. That's a start. More skilled rebuttal. (<--- more sarcasm ) More strawman arguments. That’s not the issue. No one with any sense would think that a ban would actually stop everyone smoking. But a ban on smoking and the commercial sale of tobacco will stop many (if not most) people from smoking, so that’s a pretty worthwhile outcome. Why does this suck? This is the type of contemptible arrogance that I despise in smokers. You think it sucks because you are not allowed to set fire to an object that produces nauseating toxic smoke that hurts people’s throats? Oh my, you poor thing. It must be devastating to have your civil liberties infringed to such as extent. Because you cannot smoke in some places?!?! Wow, that doesn’t fit very well with the tough guy image you’re trying to convey. Case in point. Hmmm, that sentence started out quite well, but it ended with the same level of logic that you’ve presented up until this point. *sigh* Okay, I’ll try one more time. Why should you suffer, you ask? Answer: Because smoking makes the whole of society suffer!!!! The health costs that arise from the adverse effects of tobacco costs society (ie. you and me) billions of $$$. This is usually the point where the smoking apologists chime in with their argument that smoking generates revenue to counteract that. Firstly, if you think the revenue gained for tobacco tax goes to paying off all the health costs that idiot smokers cause society, you’re sadly deluded. Secondly, there are some of us who are not happy with a society that places the welfare of people second to the welfare of the tobacco companies. Some of us want to push for a society that places people first, rather than a society that attempts to mitigate the terrible effects of tobacco consumption by using money generated by the sale of the very tobacco that caused the problem in the first place. Preventing those health costs before they arise is the logical approach (ie. ban smoking). Uh huh, that’s precisely the type of arrogant and insensitive 'proud smoker' behaviour I would expect from the image I have formed of you.
Shouldn't the driving of SUVs and similar vehicles be illegal if smoking is made illegal? While American society may need private automobiles, surely everybody should be forced to burn less gasoline. For the sake of my lungs.
I believe you missed the entire point of my post lol I smoke...alot. I don't like the fact that I do, and I'm not proud of it; however, it is my problem, and I take full responsibility for that decision. I will not blame other smokers for my not being able to quit. If I really work at it, I can overcome it. This thread started as a piss and moan session about being weak willed. Addiction is mind boggling. It is amazing to me the physical, emotional and biological aspects involved. Regardless of what such an addiction may do to me, I have made my own lifestyle choices and it is up to me to change them. Yes a starting point, and a very good one in the war against smoking. More and more places are adopting such laws, and these laws have proven that governments are concerned about the issue, taking action to protect the well-being of their communities and listening to the people of those communities. It has also shown that smokers will still frequent establishments that have a ban on smoking, which was a major concern for restaurant and bar owners who were worried that they would lose a lot of business. So in essence, it is thus far successful and will only gain further acceptance. When a law is passed that affects your lifestyle and your personal choices, you may be slightly disenchanted lol...it sucks because all of a sudden I cannot do something I would normally do. Since I am addicted, I couldn't fathom having a meal without ending it with a tasty smoke. And drinking? Please, even social smokers have issue with not being able to smoke while they are out drinking. But it's no longer acceptable in public (in the region where I live anyway), so I cope. lol It's not nauseating to me, but yes, it hurts my throat. And yes, it is devastating to no longer be able to smoke wherever I'd like, but I realize there are more pressing issues so I have not marched on Washington in order to lift the ban. =P lmao tough guy image? attitude, yes. rant, most certainly. impressing you is not my concern nor is it my purpose lol. lol sorry, I forgot to pull out my debate handbook. To expand upon that statement...I do find it impressive and admirable that a healthier lifestyle is advocated by so many people, and that great strides are being taken to let them know their voice is being heard. However, I do not need anyone to lecture me on the dangers of smoking. I know it can kill me, but it is my choice to continue this behavior, albeit a bad one. I don't appreciate people assuming that I am ignorant about its consequences. I made a bad choice many years ago that I will pay for tenfold many years in the future. I did not mention taxes or healthcare costs, so logically I must not be sadly deluded lol. All I simply said is that the tobacco industry as well as the quitting industry are huge and successful markets that feed off of each other. Though I would be impressed if tobacco sales were illegal, I find that to be highly improbable due to such high demand...for both markets. Good for you. I am part of this "some of us" as well. It seems you took my post as pro-smoking campaign. My post was simply a "nobody is to blame but me for my decisions" campaign. But as a smoker, I will not jump on the bandwagon and petition against myself lol. There is enough of an awareness that us smokers are becoming more of a minority. And as luck would have it, majority rules. So I can smoke freely in my home, my car, and outside as long as I am 50 feet away from any entrance lol. lmfao that statement was in jest. But I am sure you gathered that. Just as I did not need you to point out your sarcasm lol. You weren't exactly covert about it. I suppose since this is a serious issue, you took everything I said quite seriously.
Yeah....smoking isn't very smart...in fact its pretty dumb. Unless you want it to look cool when you are playing guitar, don't smoke. If you are addicted now I suggest you quit because its gonna bite you in the ass later on in life. I have no idea of what goes on in New Zealand, but in America I highly doubt smoking will be banned anytime soon. Too many rich people with power are into the tobacco business, and too many times has the marketing of tobacco saved a country's ass.
