Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,898

    I watched the video...the assembly of clips were mediocre at best, BUT it probably was the most "realistic" depiction of what would happen. I would suggest though that the Enterprise shielding would take a heavier assault. AND if it were that the Enterprise somehow, by some oddity, found itself outgunned, Picard would indeed retreat. Kudos to the video editor for not forgetting that at Warp there was no way that a light speed beam, no matter how powerful, would ever touch Picard's ship.

    PS Did folks notice that the ensign on Data's right were Ro, Wesley AND some anonymous guy; Picard's uniform style kept changing along with the length of Worf's hair? :bugeye:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  3. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Oh please be serious, the ships don't fight at warp. They have the possibility of doing so, but phasers can't fire forward at warp and even Photons are heavily weakened. Also note that no prolonged engagement is fought even at full impulse.


    The diparity of shields is also a factor. A photon torpedo at 64 megatons is not even as powerful as the lightest SW fighter weapon and you expect it to penetrate the shields of a SW capital ship. Yeah right.

    Real way it would happen.

    Data: Captain sensors have detected a large starship directly ahead approaching at point two zero impulse. She appears to be two thousand meters long and undetermined mass. It is of no known manufacture. Energy outputs is equivalent to 2 Type G stars.

    Picard: Two suns, Mister Data,?

    Data: Correct, Sir.

    Picard: Opening a hailing frequency. I'd rather not find out if that ship has teeth. <beat> Unidentified Vessel, This is Captain Jean Luc Picard of the Federation Starship Enterprise.

    Imperial Captain: This is Captain Denarr of the Imperial Star Destroyer Retribution. By Order of the Emperor power down and submit for Customs Inspection.

    Picard: Customs? I'm sorry you are under the mistaken impression we are a commercial freighter. This is Starfleet vessel we're not under your jurisdiction.

    Imperial Captain: Fine have it your way.

    Data: Captain the Retribution has locked the Enterprise in five tractor arrays. Attempting to compensate. We are at full impulse. No effect.

    Picard: Red Alert. Raise shields. Lock phasers on tractor Beams once we're free evasive maneuvers.

    Data: Firing Phasers. No effect. Modulating frequency. Still no effect.

    Picard: Load Quantum Torpedoes concentrated pattern on main Tractor Arrays.

    Data: Star Destroyer firing (whole ship rocks, lights dim, panles explode, screen goes dark, Electrical feedback fries Data and knocks him across the bridge.)

    Picard: Computer Damage Report? (Silence) Computer?(more silence)

    (ominous sounds from outside finally in walks six stormtroopers firing stun bolts not even asking for surrenders)
     
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  5. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    1,898
    TW Scott...watch the video, Picard retreated before the Death Star fired. Hence he was not using weapons...
     
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  7. houseofknowledge house of knowledge Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    51
    the point is that star wars would oblitereate Star Trek.
     
  8. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,898
    Tsk, "houseofknowledge" is such an ironic name

    TW: How 'bout I do a possible scene too, where Admiral Janeway handles a Star Destroyer? Her mission is tactical armed response after a Star Destroyer is cutting its way through Federation automated defenses. She assembles her original bridge crew and borrows command of Voyager from Chakotay:

    Janeway: "Mr. Tuvok, what can that thing do?"
    Tuvok: "Captain, the battle cruiser is 1600m in length, and is armed with a considerable number of high powered laser based weapons. Though it is plausible that combinedm they will eventually penetrate our shields, I estimate a 72.4% chance we would withstand an initial barrage"
    Janeway:"Hail the ship"
    Janeway:"This is Admiral Kathryn Janeway of the United Federation of Planets, what is your business in Federation space?"
    Destroyer Captain:"By order of the Emperor, power down your shields and prepare to be boarded"
    Janeway (under breath) "Like Hell", (out loud) "You are not authorized to make any such demand in UFP space, and as an Admiral, I suggest you get packing"
    Destroyer Captain:"You have been warned"
    Tuvok: "Captain, detecting 12 forward laser weapons powering up"
    Janeway:"Tuvok, deploy ablative armor"
    Voyager nanotech armor deploys, Destroyer fires
    Voyager rocks violently and is pushed several hundred meters away
    Tuvok:"Shields down 26%, armor unaffected, no internal damage"
    Janeway: "Mr. Paris, that's a big clumsy ship, see if you can't fly some rings around them"
    Paris: "Yes ma'am"
    Star Destroyer laser weapons fire like a starburst, 1 in 15 making glancing blows on Voyager
    Tuvok:"Shields down to 55%, armor holding at 92%, minor structural damage"
    Janeway:"Time to see what she's made of, open fire, full phasers, concentrate on the tower, i'm guessing that's where my counterpart is"
    Voyager fires, phasers thundering across the Destroyer's bridge tower
    Tuvok: "Captain, the destroyer shields are taking heavy damage. My scans indicate that they are optimized for laser weapons"
    Janeway:"Rotate phaser modulation, and follow with a spread of transphasic torpedos"
    Phaser modulation tears through Destroyer shields, and transphasic torpedos make short work of the bridge tower.
    With the entire bridge staff dead, the chief engineer of the Destroyer initiates a hyper jump in retreat.
    Janeway:"Contact Starfleet command and ensure that armor and torpedo distribution are on schedule; I think we'll be needing them soon"
     
  9. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    change ''laser based weapons'' to ''plasma based weapons'' and then change ''rotate phaser frequency'' to ''my scans indicate they use static shielding,our phasers should have no trouble being phased throu them''.


    other then that,good job.
     
  10. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149

    Obviously somebody has not checked his tech facts a single Turbolaser has more firepoweer that an entire "Broadside" from a Galaxy CLass Cruiser. and it can fire it 5 times as often.
     
  11. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    a GCS carries 120,000 tons of antimatter,or about that much.

    a TL is just a glob of plasma.


    if they can contain that much antimatter,they can shield from plasma,regardless of how much power you think it has.


    heat transference might work in sw,but it doesnt work too well in trek.
     
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Okay for those people who are still delusional the total amount the shields on a GCS can handle in one blast is less that 400 gigawats. Even with the 50% upgrades the Borg and Dominion wars has cuased that is less than 600 gigawats. This translates to 600 billion joules or 140.85 billion calories or roughly 140.85 tons of dynamite. That is canon fact that cannot be argued against. Now among Federations vessels the GCS has the second best shielding rate. The Sovereign beats it out at increase of another 50%.

    Now a Heavy Turbolaser like they mount on the Executioner is 12,500,000,000 billion calories or 12.5 gigatons of dynamite equivalent or 53,250,000,000 gigajoules. That works out to 133,125,000 times as power as what the GCS shields can take in a single slavo. A normal turbolaser is 70% as powerful as the heavy, a Heavy Ion Cannon puts out EM interference equivalnet to 40% of the normal Turbolaser. The ligh blaster cannon, the lightest starship weapon in SW still manages 4% of a heavy turbolaser or 5,325,000 times what it takes to drop the shileds of a Federation Galaxy CLass Cruiser.

    Do you still think you stand anything resembling a chance. I've been ver generous to the ST universe before., now I gone full bore.
     
  13. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    thats 400GWs manifested by an omnipotent being.Tls are NOT manifested by omnipotent beings.


    a single ptorp is WELL beyond 400GW,its oreders of magnitude above that,and a GCS can handle more then a few ptorps.


    by your logic,they couldnt contain the antimatter that powers the ship,and we know they contain it at 6X the required power.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  14. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    I don't care if it was manifested by Tim from Monty Python and the Holy Grail 400 gw is 400gw is 400gw.

    Actually they never say that. Of course the point is moot as we NEVER see a photon torpedo explode when they hit shields. The don't even eplode whern they hit a ship witness Wrath of Kahn and Undiscovered Country.

    Where did I say that, perhaps most of ship power goes to that leaving Offense pathetic and defense a bad joke.
     
  15. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    blowing up a 300X100m nickel-iron asteroid to chunks less then 1cm takes alot more then 400gw.

    and the manifested jacketed antimatter was NOT actualy jacketed antimatter and only registered as 400gw.

    see,when an omnipotent being manifests something,its not actualy there,there was no ship,or jacketed antimatter,it was omnipotent being manifested energy,NOT 400gw of antimatter energy.

    the fact he could have wiped out every human in the entire galaxy if he wanted proves that his energy is well beyond 400gws,and that only 400gws of his energy showed up on the scanners.

    it very well could have been 400,000,000GWs of energy,but since its omnipotently manifested,only a portion of it would likely have showed up on the scans.


    Q doesnt show up scans either,unless he wants something he manifested to show up on scans,and then it might read as something completly benign but infact be very dangerous.

    when an omnipotent being manifests something,scans dont usualy work very well on it and cant be taken as an absolute.

    using ONE dubious instance for your basis of your entire argument makes your position fundamently flawed.
     
  16. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,812
    there is no way the enterprise could take on a death star but it would probably be able to take on most of the other stuff. dont forget the difference between the two sides in that the federation is much more peaceful than the empire
     
  17. Hukka4Life Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    150
    You are still dead wrong.
    Actually, a heavy turbolaser has much less than gigaton range firepower.
    Given a GCS can throw - and take - gigatons of weapon energy, you're completely out of the ballpark.
    Try kiloton range turbolaser yields (actual).
     
  18. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Well one on one the Enterprise could handle Slave one and maybe even upto a dozen TIE fighters. They also crush Galaofree Medium Transports as those have no weapons normally. Forget it againt anything more combat capable. They just don't have the shielding or Firepower.
     
  19. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Really? What if it had high deposit of quartz in it as well. Simply running some current through would break it up. Besides I have explained Photon seems to break the rule, but since you never see one explode when it hits a shield it is mute. For all we know the sheild could destroy the missile before it hits.

    Actually given the description of his powers he did have limits and 400GW may have not been his upper, but it was probably pretty close. And it was real, not some fake light show, but real.

    Worf was at Tactical for a hit he would have checked what the energy drain on the shield have been. He said 400gw using Occam razor it is 400gw.

    Now you are grasping at straws it was evident that the being in Survivors was fundamental different than Q so your twisted interpretation is only made to suit your specific needs. Becuase I could turn around and say Q never moved a Black Hole but Luke Skywalker did so all Q would be Luke's b!tches.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
  20. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    again,you have completly missed the point.


    the asteroid was staed as being nickel-iron,NOT anything else.


    and the ship was NOT real,that was the point of the episode,he created it with his mind.Running scans of manifested energy are NOT acurate,especialy for a technical discussion.


    oh,and the majority of antimatter explosions are INVISIBLE gamma rays,you CANT see most of the explsoion.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Becuase you haven't a valid one to begin with?

    So if I hand you water and say it is water there is nothing else in it? And if it was a pure nickle-iron asteroid it would have been to useful a resource to destroy. It would hav been mined.

    The ship was real, dumbass, he had the ability to manipulate matter and energy at will. The matter was real as was the energy. You are grasping at the magic defense butforget that if a magician sets a piece of paper aflame with magic it is still aflame.

    Same with Nuclear but you can see a bright flash then.
     
  22. Hukka4Life Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    150
    "It would have been mined?"

    TW Scott, do you have any idea what was actually going on in that episode?

    Or what the going price of steel is, as opposed to the cost of a large crater in the middle of your cities?

    Please. You're getting ridiculous here.
     
  23. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Hey you got a transporter that can beam out 8 ton chucks of matter in 2 seconds and about 5 of them. How quickly could you reduce the asteroid to less than a threat?
     
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