Energy from the Vacuum...

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by TruthSeeker, Apr 11, 2002.

  1. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    2,447
    Even if you somehow managed to find an area of space completely devoid of any normal matter particles (or antimatter, for that matter

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    ), there would still be millions upon millions of "virtual particles" popping up (in matter/antimatter pairs) from nowhere, breifly stay in normal space (and by breifly I mean something like a millionth of a second, if that long, probably more like 10^-12 seconds or something), then rejoin with each other, annihalating each other.

    So right at this very moment millions of tiny "virtual" particles are borrowing energy, popping up, then annihalating eachother right inside your body.

    This is also the reason black holes are not completely black. They emit very faint radiation, which is made up of these virtual particles. What happens is one particle of the virtual pair (say the matter particle) appears outside the event horizon of the black hole (the point where nothing can escape), while the antimatter particle appears inside the event horizon. The antimatter particle would be lost, and the matter particle would not be annihalated as a result. So instead of borrowing energy from space for a fraction of a second, it has to permanently borrow some energy from the black hole to become a real matter particle. The the outside observer, it appears as if the black hole is "leaking" particles of matter.

    You should pick up A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking if you are at all interested in this kind of stuff. It's confusing at first, but eventually you get the hang of it, basically whatever you learned about physics, unlearn it, and relearn it in modern theories.

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  3. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Yes...

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    I wonder what's IN the vacuum...
    Or what actually IS the vacuum...

    Remember a guy... I think Farewell or something like that that have the idea of a vacuum filled with a medium and used that to explain some things... Then, Einstein came with his Relativity and finished with that?

    I guess the other guy was right...

    I continue later...
    I have to go to school...
    I'm already typing to fast, I will finish by writing something wrong...

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder what's IN the vacuum...
    Or what actually IS the vacuum...


    Please don't leave yourself wide open for obvious smart-ass responses.

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    Remember a guy... I think Farewell or something like that that have the idea of a vacuum filled with a medium and used that to explain some things... Then, Einstein came with his Relativity and finished with that?

    One of your biggest problems is trying to sort out in your "mind" where, when, by whom, etc.. you've heard something. Your posts are littered with these kinds of uncertainties. After you "think" you've "reasoned" it out, you post it here as fact written in stone when in fact it's nothing more than gibberish, a direct result of misfired synapses (or lack thereof)

    It's called research. Do it !

    I'm already typing to fast, I will finish by writing something wrong...

    You are certainly consistent in that arena.

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  7. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    I researched that two years ago...
    It would be really awesome if I had such memory to remember the source!!

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  8. John Devers (AVATAR) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    120
    I don't know about those first links, here's the real thing that has been peer reviewed and accepted as tapping the ZPF (zero point field)


    <A HREF="http://focus.aps.org/v8/st25.html" target=new><FONT COLOR=Lime size=+1> Focus

    </FONT></A>

    <img src="http://focus.aps.org/v8/st25f1.jpg">

    Engineering emptiness. Even in vacuum, the Casimir force between a microscopic sphere and metal paddle alters the frequency of the paddle's oscillation. Specially designed "gaps" in micromechanical systems could someday be used to modify their behavior.
    Physicists have spent centuries tailoring materials to meet their needs, but a new experiment attempts to engineer with empty space. Researchers placed a tiny sphere within nanometers of an oscillating plate. A minuscule quantum mechanical attraction between the sphere and plate lowered the frequency of the plate's vibration, and the team varied the frequency by moving the bead. The experiment was the first measurement of the effects of the so-called Casimir force on a mechanical system. The results, appearing in the 19 November print issue of PRL, may lead to microscopic machines that use the force of empty space as one of their components.

    At the heart of these experiments is the Casimir effect, a phenomenon from quantum electrodynamics (QED). QED dictates that all space, even empty space, is filled with an infinite number of electromagnetic vibrations. When two uncharged metal surfaces are brought within nanometers of each other, there's a limit on the number of vibrations that can exist between them. The vibrations outside the plates create an inward pressure that pushes the plates together--the Casimir force.

    Federico Capasso and his team at Bell Labs in Murray Hill, NJ, used the Casimir force to control a tiny mechanical oscillator. They applied an alternating (AC) electric field to an uncharged metallic paddle, which caused it to seesaw at a fixed frequency and amplitude. Using a fine-tipped probe, they then lowered a gold plated sphere 100 µm in diameter toward the surface of the paddle. As the sphere came to within a few hundred nanometers of the surface, the team detected a change in the natural frequency of the paddle. By adjusting the height of the sphere by a few nanometers, they could alter the amplitude and frequency of oscillations.

    "The importance of this work is clearly in engineering applications," says Umar Mohideen of Columbia University in New York City. The Casimir force could cause micromechanical components to stick together, he explains, and so it is important to understand how it interacts with moving parts like the oscillator. Capasso believes that engineers could use their understanding of the Casimir force to design micromachines where empty space is used as a component. For example, he says, a version of this oscillator could be used as a precise position sensor. "In my opinion," he says, "there are lots of opportunities to engineer these quantum electrodynamic forces."
     
  9. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Ok... but the point here is where did the particles come from? If it's Vacuum, how can it creates particles, or even eletromagnetic vibrations? Do we have a physical explanation for that?

    My point here is that if there's no physical origin of those particles, we found the Creator that is IN the Vacuum or IS the Vacuum...

    I'm not telling anyone to belive on me. I'm just pointing out that we may have discovered God, as I said in my thread "The Scientifci proof of God", where people agreed that I already have the HYPOTHESIS. Now, I'm just trying to evolute it as a THEORY.

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    Let's discuss it.

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    Who agree with me? Who disagree? Why?

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  10. Forseth Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    I must agree with one of the previous posts, "TruthSeeker"....

    One of the major problems I have with your posts...You rarely back up your claims with true facts...and...When you do attempt to back a statement, it is more like a fact trying to be an opinion...and one that can be easily disproved with five minutes worth of research in a first year physics book.

    By the way, there are NUMEROUS resources concerning the origin of sub-atomic paticles on the net....please, for the love of god, read one or two of them.
     
  11. Forseth Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    Also...when something has yet to be given a scientific explaination, that doesn't mean therefor it must be scientific proof of "God"

    and if you do believe that some all- permeating deity is responsible for this "creation"...then the simple FACT that things exist at all should be proof enough for you.
     
  12. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    Why anyone read my posts...?

    Care to explain this:

    ./-----pion + -----\
    /..........................\
    ------neutron-------
    \........................../
    .\-----pion - ------/

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  13. Forseth Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    Alright...I think I can grasp what the diagram is supposed to be, but I am not sure as to what kind of explaination you are looking for...

    Care to elaborate?
     
  14. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Ok... that's what I'm asking...

    If a neutron (which is not a virtual particle) and two pions, one positive and one negative (which are virtual particles) are created from nothing, WHAT happen in the nothing, in the Vacuum, to create those particles...?

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  15. c'est moi all is energy and entropy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    583
    i see it as some kind of background sea of energy
    the only thing that makes your particle become real is because this is allowed by heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    4 a split second it will remain but disappear again because of lack of energy
    ad energy and it will remain
     
  16. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Which kind of energy...?
     
  17. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Energy is energy, there is no special 'kind'.

    Sushi!
    Xev
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2002
  18. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Potential, Cinetical... just a couple of examples...
     
  19. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    10,943
    Potential and kinetic energy are two sides of the same coin, energy. Really, the terms are not used outside classical, Newtonian physics.

    Energy is basically the ability to exert force, to do work. Does that clear things up?

    Sushi!
    Xev
     
  20. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Sonore energy, mechanical energy...
    Ok... they are all the same energy...
    I'm asking which one specifically...

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    Or it's all of them?
    Then, why do the energy create a particle?

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  21. Forseth Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    It's not so much a bunch of different "energies" as it is the same fundamental energy applied, used, or released in different ways.


    As for why certain particles can "become" from no known source, seemingly at random...I can not offer you any new theories. I admit this.

    Do I take this as divine evidence? No...I just consider it something that has yet to be given a conclusive, or at least probable, reason.

    ---

    Hell. Maybe they aren't created so much as they are transposed from some (as of yet) undetectable, underlying plane of the universe....they "mistakenly" burrow in and are quickly pushed back out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2002
  22. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,162
    Foreseth,

    Yes! Brainstorm ideas! Bring them up! People don't usually do because they don't have EVIDENCE to back it up, but that's how it's made!

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    So... is it possible that this underlyig plane has a kind of energy that we can't detect with our usual instruments...?
    Perhaps more energy then we have in our dimension?
    Perhaps is faster then light and that's the reason that we can't detect it...

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  23. Forseth Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    Honestly I don't know. It was a quick idea...when dealing with other possible dimension, there are any number of possible explainations. Take your pick...you'll give yourself a headache quickly.

    If what I thought up actually had any truth to it, then I would be more interested in knowing what "pushes" the particles back out. Thankfully they are....else our universe would quickly gain too much mass...and fall into the big crunch.
     

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