SM, putting things in huge capitals doesn't demonstrate your point more, just makes it clear u are getting a bit tetchy, and by the way 'thoughts and their effect on atoms'? your response?
There is nothing in that paper on effects of thoughts on atoms... Or did you post this link again for some other reason we will hear about in 10 posts time. Apperently it wasn't to prove evidence for prayer after I pointed out that it didn't show any. Is it going to be about something else too than effects of thoughts on atoms too in a few posts time? Are you one of those posters that just posts things at random and we just have to accept that?
SM.. you repeating the SAME WRONG THING doesn't make it right, I NEVER said that link had anything to do with prayer, I NEVER SAID it had anything to do with ATOMS my question re atoms was directly to YOU and remains so. YOU CAN'T DAREN'T ADDRESS IT! WHY? becuase it proves that thoughts affect atoms, therefore thoughts CAN affect human biology? GO ON Keep repeating yourself with same WRONG quotes re me, I'm bored These are my final words DENY or ACkNOWLEDGE thoughts affect atoms. Failure to do so, shows when faced with a good argument you just run off on a tangent and alledge' things have been said that haven't. My final word
so i am feelin this scene as in 'SHOW me yor peer reviewd papers on it, or get outta town' dntknowif your playing devil's advocate....why not? but, i have to say you use the term 'P L A C E B O' like some fundamentalist would use a cross aginst avampire...the words nearly comin out at ya!...hah buuut. do you presume to A C T A L L Y know what a placebo IS? s ther's that question. just know that in all medical literature as far as i'm aware there is not really much knowledge wht placebo actually is. anyway continuing my critique of your debunking......Do you not feel your criteria for 'proof' is gross. as ho you can me mechanical all the way deep? do you get me. is your materialistically-oriteted worldview demanding instant success ratews...like some Ford conveyor belt.....or some drug trial? can you not play wth the unkknown idea that maybe there ARE subtle ways, beneath the hard surface of your presumptive premises about reality? if i say ask you do you KNOW consciousness, how do you respond?
totally unintelligaboe senntence translation: do you feel that reality is mechanical deep down. ie., yes we know that the main acepted scientific INTERPRETATIOn of reality is tat it is 'mechancial' and its 'secrets' yield to measure....but is that it? what is the complimentary to 'measure'?
Why not make this a poll? They're pretty neat. I think it might, but only for unknown reasons not because god really exists and answers them.
I haven't ever heard of thoughts influencing atoms (other than configuration changes in the brain itself caused by living processes) and therefore I deny it till I hear otherwise. I assume we are now talking about thoughts affecting atoms outside the human body?
Thoughts, ideas, and emotions are 'physical' things, elemental energies, carried on the 'ethereal' currents. Our minds are continuously immersed in these currents, and we attract to ourselves thoughts and ideas with which we resonate most strongly, and modify them as they pass through our minds. Sometimes an idea may become so powerful and emotionally charged that it takes hold of a great many people's minds at the same time, resulting in a psychic epidemic such as a new cult, a new craze, a new fashion thought waves are on a much higher level than any other energies we know, so it's yet impossible to detect them except with our brain.
The Thrilla in Vanilla!! spuriousmonkey VS TheoryofRelativity Thursday, March 16th, 2006! Tickets $15 per round! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! AmishRakeFight
all i know is that the placebo effect is a reality it has been documented numerous times it's also the reason i said that the power of the believing mind is awesome it also proves that there is a link between your brain and your health
Prayer, in my experience, has worked, but some of it was circumstantial evidence. -I'm stuck in the middle of South Africa on a four wheeler, the four wheeler dies, I pray, the four wheeler starts. -I pray for a girlfriend, I get a girlfriend that I didn't really want. So my prayers start getting more and more specific (blonde hair, brown eyes, ect), and, lo and behold, I start getting girlfriends to the specifications. (P.S. I was in sixth grade Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) Things of that sort. I dunno, maybe just the relaxing, sitting down and thinking about what I want sort of tweaked my brain to start looking for what I wanted. No idea whatsoever how to explain it, although I'm sure Spurious and ToR will have some input. AmishRakeFight
I think the same thing. The universe seems unfathomably irrational to me and the sinister sound of "childhood oncology ward" underlines the fickle nature of answered prayer. I only know what works for me and maybe it is more like magic than anything else. Perhaps there's some kind of prayer technique that calls more attention to some than others (though that seems kind of cruel) or perhaps there is a God or myriad gods who for some reason, listen to some, (as perhaps they are tasked with their well being), while others for some reason that seems ridiculously cruel, are ignored. It makes no sense at all and I fully appreciate all of the atheistic arguments that strike at the amoral or immoral nature of it all.
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You got it. Prayer, and faith in general, makes people feel better. Feeling better reduces stress. Reduced stress has many salutary effects, from healthier heart to more effective immune system to the tautology of less depression. No one argues that what's in our conscious or unconscious mind can't have an effect on our somatic health. That link is perfectly uncontroversial. To expand on Leopold's comment, it's the basis of the placebo effect. I've seen all the recent studies suggesting that people who pray or who simply have religious faith get sick less often and heal faster. As an atheist not only do I not doubt this phenomenon, but I rather envy them. Ignorance is truly bliss. If you wonder why I don't take the next step and simply bless religion (and if you've been here very long you know that I damn it, at least the Abrahamic varieties that metastasize out of the Mideast like cancer epidemics every few centuries) it's because the salutary effect is only individual and only short term. From the standpoint of a population the long term effect of all that prayer and faith--again, at least in the Abrahamist communities--is unhealthy. Each believer gets his faith-induced uplift at the expense of the whole population, especially those that come after. The price of individual serenity through prayer is the intolerance, warfare, and stagnation that eventually characterizes every nation that adopts Abrahamism.
that might be the entire problem prayer has absolutly nothing to do with a god nor is it tied to religion in any way that might be where this belief in a god comes from a person just can't accept the fact that their own mind is the cause or the cure could that be the explaination everyone is looking for?
yes of course there is a link, after all isn't the hormones of the body regulated by the brain? but the placebo effect goes beyond that correct me if i am wrong but doesn't the placebo effect say that a person can heal themselves just by believing they are being healed?
