challenge your brain how do you make such a machine

challenge your brain how do you make such a machine


you dont.

Closest one I've seen does 3 months of perpetual motion before it stops.

There are alot of extremely efficient models out there but in terms of limitless free motion......dont think it exists on earth

It would make more sense to question how they Don't work since a number of people tend to not understand why their various contraptions can't run 'Perpetually'.

challenge your brain how do you make such a machine

That isn't a challenge, it's an impossibility to make such a device for everything eventually stops. Even the universe will one day stop expanding and die just as suns, galaxies and other celestial bodies.

It always amuses me when one of these threads get started. That's because the original poster clearly has no idea how they are demonstrating just how limited their knowledge currently is. They've never heard of things like friction, power conversion losses and the second law of thermodynamics. :D

The solution to their problem is quite simple - stay in school because they still have a LONG way to go. :)

(cut and paste from physics forum)

The general reason given for the impossibility of a perpetual motion machine is the second law of thermodynamics.

However, we could build an effectively perpetual motion machine, say, using solar cells---the second law doesn't hold when there is an external energy source. Ignoring things like stress on components of the engine, one could imagine building something that could run for, say, the lifetime of the sun. That would be pretty close.

Perhaps you could build a spaceship that could travel from star to star in a galaxy, gathering enough solar energy at one start during its lifetime to make it to the next star. That could concievably last the age of a galaxy.

In the real world though, things like stress and friction doom any engine to human intervention---people have to be around to fix shit when it breaks.

Nikola Tesla said that things have no energy except from what they receive from the environment. Planets move forever because they receive energy from space. Eventually they die, and after a period of rest they are reborn. Ultimately, all energy comes from rest, death, nothingness.

Cars are perpetual motion machines. You just fill the fuel and they can go forever. Until they break. Then you make a new one, and the the car can drive again. Forever. Almost everything are perpetual motion machines (wind generators for example)

The universe is not a closed system, so the 2nd law of Thermodynamics does not apply to it. Life (atoms, galaxies, humans) is a perpetual motion creator, that keeps everything moving forever.

Cars are perpetual motion machines. You just fill the fuel and they can go forever. Until they break. Then you make a new one, and the the car can drive again. Forever. Almost everything are perpetual motion machines (wind generators for example)


That's a totally incorrect set of statements. Just by simple definition, nothing is a perpetual motion machine if you have to keep adding external energy to it. In the case of cars, the fuel comes from an external source; in the case of windmills, it comes from the sun.

Apparently you have no real grasp of the second law since you said those things. :shrug:

nothing is a perpetual motion machine if you have to keep adding external energy to it. In the case of cars, the fuel comes from an external source; in the case of windmills, it comes from the sun.

Things can't do anything if they don't receive energy from the environment, because it's the only source of energy... and the environment has infinite energy because the universe is infinite.

How pleased I am to hear that. I receive energy from the sun both directly and indirectly. I declare myself immortal.

Things can't do anything if they don't receive energy from the environment, because it's the only source of energy... and the environment has infinite energy because the universe is infinite.

Ugh. You are aparently unfamiliar with the idea of a perpetual motion machine.

energy can't be created or destroyed. when the universe was created, it wasn't created, it was just formed into a different form. the reason you can't destroy energy is because there is infinite (zero) energy. something minus infinity is infinity. and you can't add energy either.

How pleased I am to hear that. I receive energy from the sun both directly and indirectly. I declare myself immortal.

you can't convert light into enough useful energy, you have to eat. but even if you eat food, you will die later because your cells can't receive energy forever. but it doesn't matter if a car or a body breaks, we can always rebuild them.

everything is forever, but nothing is forever in the same form.
---
magnets receive energy from the environment. so you could build a perpetual motion machine with them... but that's no different than a perpetual motion machine that receives energy from the wind or sun forever.
---
energy can't stay forever inside something. an apple receives energy from the tree which receives it from the earth which receives it from the infinite space source. the apple, tree and earth dies, but they are always reborn after getting energy from resting in the source of everything that is 'nothing', space.

energy can't be created or destroyed. when the universe was created, it wasn't created, it was just formed into a different form. the reason you can't destroy energy is because there is infinite (zero) energy. something minus infinity is infinity. and you can't add energy either.



you can't convert light into enough useful energy, you have to eat. but even if you eat food, you will die later because your cells can't receive energy forever. but it doesn't matter if a car or a body breaks, we can always rebuild them.

everything is forever, but nothing is forever in the same form.
---
magnets receive energy from the environment. so you could build a perpetual motion machine with them... but that's no different than a perpetual motion machine that receives energy from the wind or sun forever.
---
energy can't stay forever inside something. an apple receives energy from the tree which receives it from the earth which receives it from the infinite space source. the apple, tree and earth dies, but they are always reborn after getting energy from resting in the source of everything that is 'nothing', space.

Clearly it's as Ben said - you don't understand what a perpetual motion machine is. By definition, it does NOT receive power from anything. You start it up and it runs forever without getting additional energy.

Therefore, there is NO such device in existence nor will there ever be.

By definition, it does NOT receive power from anything. You start it up and it runs forever without getting additional energy.

there is no such thing as a machine that receives no additional energy. all matter receives energy, that's why they have energy, existence, gravity and magnetism.

you could just set a perfectly balanced catherine wheel to spin forever in space lol, but as for a mechanical device on earth, suffering from gravity and friction it seems pretty unlikely

there is no such thing as a machine that receives no additional energy. all matter receives energy, that's why they have energy, existence, gravity and magnetism.

Your first statement is correct; your second statement is non-scientific nonsense.

Oh please... Don't you guys watch Invader Zim? *rolls eyes*

Your first statement is correct; your second statement is non-scientific nonsense.

if it's nonsense, explain where the earth got the energy to move itself around the sun. where did particles get their energy? if things wouldn't constantly receive energy, how could they move? could you do anything if you didn't get water and food?

The earth got its energy when the solar system was formed. Now check out what Newton says on the subject of gravity and motion in vacuuo.

you could just set a perfectly balanced catherine wheel to spin forever in space lol, but as for a mechanical device on earth, suffering from gravity and friction it seems pretty unlikely

no, you couldn't, as there is still friction in space or microgravity.

if it's nonsense, explain where the earth got the energy to move itself around the sun. where did particles get their energy? if things wouldn't constantly receive energy, how could they move? could you do anything if you didn't get water and food?

I see that you also have problems with the very basics of physics.

The Earth gained it's momentum to orbit at the time It was formed - and is slowly loosing it. What "particles" are you talking about?

And of course we need food and water - but we aren't "machines" in the sense of how the word is normally used although for the purposes of this discussion it's OK. And neither are we any more "perpetual" than any other machine.

Also, I explained to you earlier, by it's very definition a perpetual motion machine needs NO external energy input to keep it running. That's exactly why no such device can ever exist.

The Earth gained it's momentum to orbit at the time It was formed - and is slowly loosing it.

that doesn't explain it, it just moves the problem one step back. when the solar system was formed, where did the energy (speed) come from?

when a lion was formed, where did the energy come from? did something push it, or did it take in some energy, and it still moves because of that push or energy in the past? ridiculous, isn't it.

in the same way, it's also ridiculous to think that planets got their energy in the past, instead of by eating the environment every day.

that doesn't explain it, it just moves the problem one step back. when the solar system was formed, where did the energy (speed) come from?

when a lion was formed, where did the energy come from? did something push it, or did it take in some energy, and it still moves because of that push or energy in the past? ridiculous, isn't it.

in the same way, it's also ridiculous to think that planets got their energy in the past, instead of by eating the environment every day.

There is absolutely NO similarity between a lion and a planet.

Yorda, you need to stick to philosophy or something similar that requires no real knowledge and you can just go at it any way you wish. You certainly do not even know the most basic things about science, sorry. I've no desire to be your private tutor since you know nothing at all at this point - go get some VERY introductory-level science books and start at the very beginning.