Should we strive for perfection in all categories, or should we learn to live with the fact that universal perfection can never exist, and that our lives are futile? In the former, there is a chance by continual study of others, and generations of work, one might reach perfection, but that is unlikely. The latter proposal would be the same as giving up, but what are you giving up on? Are you giving up on life? What then would be the purpose of life? If it is to preserve our speices, then what is the end result of it all? I doubt that anyone can answer these questions, but the thought alone is enough, for it is by thought which human progression becomes possible.

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Should we strive for perfection in all categories, or should we learn to live with the fact that universal perfection can never exist, and that our lives are futile? In the former, there is a chance by continual study of others, and generations of work, one might reach perfection, but that is unlikely. The latter proposal would be the same as giving up, but what are you giving up on? Are you giving up on life? What then would be the purpose of life? If it is to preserve our speices, then what is the end result of it all? I doubt that anyone can answer these questions, but the thought alone is enough, for it is by thought which human progression becomes possible.

What is perfection?

Should we strive for perfection in all categories
Yes.

or should we learn to live with the fact that universal perfection can never exist
Yes.

and that our lives are futile?
Why would that render our lives futile?


So many people, sadly, do not recognize and appreciate the vast difference between “ideals” and “goals”.

“He who attains his ideal, by virtue of that very fact transcends it.” - Friedrich Nietzsche (variously translated)

An ideal is not attainable, a goal is.
The Democratic ideal is that all people have equal power in their government.
All people having equal power is simply not feasible.
That ideal is the North Star that should guide the actions of the people.
When setting goals, you look toward your ideal.
If the results of your intended, attainable goal, is in the direction of your ideal, then it is an acceptable goal.
If it is not, then the goal does not align with your ideal.
Perfection is a direction, not a destination.

Assume God is perfect, as many believe. It implies that our universe is perfect. You may disagree that the universe is imperfect, but perhaps it IS the best of all possible outcomes? Evil must exist for good too exist.

But what really is perfect?

perfection: flawless, the best in all categories.

perfection: flawless, the best in all categories.

I do not see that as fitting. What do you mean "flawless?" What is a flaw? What is best?


More questions than I want to deal with.

Something which is perfect is simply something which fulfills a need ideally.
A block of wood can be perfect if it does its job exquisitely.

“When you realize how perfect everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky” - The Buddha

Something which is perfect is simply something which fulfills a need ideally.
A block of wood can be perfect if it does its job exquisitely.

Isn't "exquisite" just another word for flawless, perfect? Do you mean beautifully? Isn't "beauty in the eyes of the beholder?" Perhaps "God" is the beholder? I think that would make him perfect only if the block of wood is beautiful.

:cool:

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You can delete posts instead of just editing it to clear everything.

we should realize that everything is already perfect, or it would not exist. without sadness you cannot have happiness. without suffering you cannot have bliss. yin and yang. everything is relative.

we should realize that everything is already perfect, or it would not exist. without sadness you cannot have happiness. without suffering you cannot have bliss. yin and yang. everything is relative.

I disagree. When you say two opposite things are perfect that's a contradiction. ALthough, you must understand that society dictates perfection with its images. It is by the hands of society that human psyches are moulded. It is possible to break free of the social conditioning though.

The average American watches 20 hours of tv per week. There are images of necessity and images of utter garbage entering the minds of those millions. When we adopt what we learn into our behaviors and lifestyle, our standards of perfection are made to fit the standards of perfection of what we see. But perfection is subject to abuse as much as glorification. So when we see perfection of garbage, we believe that we must become that garbage in order to be perfect. See what I'm saying?

we should realize that everything is already perfect, or it would not exist. without sadness you cannot have happiness. without suffering you cannot have bliss. yin and yang. everything is relative.

I disagree, I believe you can have bliss without suffering, grief, fear, anger, etc...if your mind is free from attachment how can those things exist?

I guess the word 'perfection' is another one of those abstract human concepts that only arise because the way the human mind works. we percieve everything as having an opposite because our perception and thought is based on relative sensual information. we see a shade and relate it to the different shades of its surroundings to determine its individual color. we percieve the opposites in emotions based on intent and their effects. perfection is either an unattainable state of equilibrium or it is a state of balanced interaction. i prefer the latter definition.

I guess the word 'perfection' is another one of those abstract human concepts that only arise because the way the human mind works. we percieve everything as having an opposite because our perception and thought is based on relative sensual information. we see a shade and relate it to the different shades of its surroundings to determine its individual color. we percieve the opposites in emotions based on intent and their effects. perfection is either an unattainable state of equilibrium or it is a state of balanced interaction. i prefer the latter definition.

A material object or something of nonmaterial existance (or parhaps even an idea) can be perfect or not. Agreed? I read your definition and see a chain of events that concludes NOTHING is perfect, that it is impossible at the current time and may never happen. Seems too imperfect states will always create more imperfect states.

Perfection is nothing more than a relative term.

Perfection is the eventuality of our own conscious's opinion. There is no real "perfect". One can look at a perfect circle and call it "perfect", and one in another Universe could call it imperfect. It's all on how you look at it.

And when it comes to perfection, God in itself is not perfect, but a term better used would be exact, apsolute, limitless, then again limit in itself is also a relative term.

How about this: if nothing is perfect, then everything is perfectly imperfect. So perfection exists in some sense, not matter how anyone defines it.

I suppose it could be looked at in that light as well.

Both of our statements I consider viable.

A material object or something of nonmaterial existance (or parhaps even an idea) can be perfect or not. Agreed? I read your definition and see a chain of events that concludes NOTHING is perfect, that it is impossible at the current time and may never happen. Seems too imperfect states will always create more imperfect states.
no, what i meant was that everything is perfect.

Such concerns are usually a matter of semantics. Like Neitzche said, "by the very act of attaining one's ideal, one surpasses it," roughly.

Instead of being concerned about your perfection or someone else's perfection, focus on your own evolution. Or rather than believing that intelligence is all there is to mental output, believe that smarts, knowledge and cunning are separate components that can produce greater outputs than intelligence. The utilization of information can make a man capable of god-like feats and seeming paradoxes.

Perfection is an imaginative abstraction which has evolved in humans to prevent everyone from committing suicide before reaching reproductive age.

PERFECTION? Not possible. A man is steadily promoted to the point where he proves incompetent at which point he is promoted no further. So every man works at a level beyond his ability.

Because my version of perfection most likely is different from your version of perfection, a universal and universally accepted perfection would be near impossible to reach. However, I don't think that most ambitious people strive to get "part of the way to where they want to go" and so I think it is good to strive for perfection while at the same time accepting the fact that you'll never reach it. By striving for mediocracy, you're not really striving.

Just my thoughts.