"they cannot see what lies ahead when the sun has failed and the moon is dead" - J.R.R Tolkien - Lord of the Rings

I'm a very logical person but sometimes I keep wondering...after all what is logic?

like the phrase I've just pasted, why do we assume things are what we see and feel? why can't our senses be a lie?

nothing more than a irreal appearence...every shape...every color...every sound, smell and feeling a missplaced reality within our minds

the world being tottaly different from the way we can perceive him

every one and all physic laws nothing more than a assumption of a truth deeply hidden within another lie and appearence

"why do we assume things are what we see and feel? why can't our senses be a lie?"

The topic of perception has always fascinated me. Ever read the Aldous Huxley book, "The Doors of Perception"?

Of course the answer is that there is no way to "prove" the validity of the information you are processing through your senses.

From the physicist's point of view, they will tell you that they can prove that the physical world you perceive is rational, predictable and that therefore your senses are accurate. However they are reaching this understanding through the framework of dualism, upon which all logic and rationality resides.

It is extremely hard for the Western rational mind to consider anything OTHER that the dualistic view of the world "out there". But you will need to go beyond dualism to find an answer to your question.

sometimes I believe logic is nothing more than another irreal perception of right and wrong and another human failure to justify it's whereabouts

I believe that a newborn baby feels and percieves themselves as 100% lovable and loved. and that this is the only truth we have, that love exists before and after the human perception is aware of itself. the word and meaning of 'reality' only exists in reality so there is no proof. people through history have said 'what I believe is real', but that may not be 'real' for me , after all everyone creates their own reality. religions say you need faith, and that proof is not needed to believe in god, but then god does not exist without faith, or to put it plainly, without having a belief in god as a part of their reality

I suppose logic is a prison built by mankind to support the feeling of security and superiority. It is a framework from which we cannot escape because we are trained to be contained. Ultimately logic does not hinder anyone to deny the existence of everything but due to logic he is unable to accept this.
Commonly those who escaped the boundaries of logic are described as mad and potentially dangerous.

"they cannot see what lies ahead when the sun has failed and the moon is dead" - J.R.R Tolkien - Lord of the Rings

I'm a very logical person but sometimes I keep wondering...after all what is logic?

like the phrase I've just pasted, why do we assume things are what we see and feel? why can't our senses be a lie?

nothing more than a irreal appearence...every shape...every color...every sound, smell and feeling a missplaced reality within our minds

the world being tottaly different from the way we can perceive him

every one and all physic laws nothing more than a assumption of a truth deeply hidden within another lie and appearence

It is true that our mind creates a model with which we see the world but if as u say, this model was totally different then we wouldn't survive very long would we! Fortunatly through years of evolution, our minds do a wonderful job of translating the world around us.

Maybe someone can tell me why there seems to be a pre-occupation about calling what we percieve a possible lie.

Why do we seem to doubt the validity of our senses in that a baseball bat is a baseball bat but for some reason we want to consider it as invalid.

It is all well and good to live thinking that life is some sort of fraud but I ask what is the benefit of doing so.

Maybe one day you'll wake up and find that you have been a slug under a cabage leaf all the time and that what you have experienced was all a dream.......which would you prefer the life under the cabage leaf of the life you consider to be a fraud......

If it is impossible to determine the truth then why bother trying......

in regard to senses: to say that the "real world" is as we sense it would just be lunacy, but what we sense is really in the "real world". my question to you is; if you cannot rely on your senses, nor on logic, then what have you left? or have you just stopped the search for truth?

A state of paradox exists when you can not determine the truth from what you are using to determine it with. It's a sort of impossible puzzle that can have no answer and therefore to accept the impossibility of your quest is to accept the truth of your quest. In other words the truth is there is no truth at this level or in this context of search.

Truth is not dependent on worthwhileness. And to accept the truth may mean accepting that there is none.

In regards to this question I would suggest that you have already found the truth, all that is left to do now is accept it...

Well, a guy named Rene Descartes thought about this way back around 1630. To find anything "truthful" he came to the conclusion that his ability to critizise things can be taken as proof that at least he exists. Thinking that you, me and everyone else might just be a product of his imagining. (I hope i rememberd it correctly) The problem with this thesis was, of course, that there was no categorical foundations for his thinking. (must be really hard to prove you exist and everybody else is just imagined) You can question everything, your whole life, you are not bound to find the answers.

I suppose where I am at personally is that I already accept that it is all an iimagination and for me I have already proved this to be so.......so does that mean I have discovered the truth or just that I have accepted it?
For me the question is no longer a question.

I guess for some people to think that it is all an imagination generates a certain fear. A fear that the purpose and meaning of life in some way is also some sort of fraud and I can not see why life being just an imagination or dream is such an issue.

Is living in a matrix such a bad thing......?

Life outside the matrix ( re: the movie ) certainly didn't look all that good....

I think it is irrelevant if this world we life in is real or fictional. Since we are obviously not able to find the truth, I would advice to take the life you lead and do whatever you see fit, perhaps you will someday find an answer. If you do not, well, at least you would not have waste your life.

About the matrix thing, if you are content living an illusion, you can do it, it would be your own choice. I think in that situation no one can be blamed when he stays in the matrix. Some people love truth, they search it and do not care under what circumstances they have to live in order to find it.

Do not waste your life with useless things, when you die and can say you enjoyed life, it was not wasted no matter if it was an illusion or real.