DOES ANY ONE KNOW ANY MOVIES LIKE AMERICAN HISTORY X.(A GREAT MOVIE BY THE WAY, SHOWS A LOT AND OPENS THE MIND.)PLEASE IF YOU KNOW ANY, POST THEM.

THANKS

Schindler's List
Grave of the fire flies
Boys don't cry

"Lumumba" was the last movie I saw that had that effect I think.

“Ilsa: She-wolf of the SS”

AmHistX should never be called "mind-opening" - unless you were unaware Nazism isn't cool. It's a nice, very well stylized movie, but I fail to see anything mind-opening about it.

Grey Zone, by the way, is an amazing movie.

No. It’s a movie that’ll open your mind to the idea that violent prison rape is just one way to solve all the problems of the world and that, oh of course, Nazis are baaaad people.

and what if i were to say i was a neo nazi, im not, im just wondering waht the reaction would be like

Pi
Requiem for a dream

"All Quiet On The Western Front"



Maria Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front is one of the
greatest war novels of all time. It is a story, not of Germans, but of
men, who even though they may have escaped shells, were
destroyed by the war. The entire purpose of this novel is to
illustrate the vivid horror and raw nature of war and to change the
popular belief that war is an idealistic and romantic character. The
story centers on Paul Baümer, who enlists in the German army with
glowing enthusiasm. But in the course of war, he is consumed by it
and in the end is "weary, broken, burnt out, rootless, and without
hope." Through Baümer, Remarque examines how war makes man
inhuman. He uses excellent words and phrases to describe crucial
details to this theme. "The first bomb, the first explosion, burst in
our hearts." Baümer and his classmates who enlisted into the army
see the true reality of the war. They enter the war fresh from school,
knowing nothing except the environment of hopeful youth and they
come to a premature maturity with the war, their only home. "We
were eighteen and had begun to love life and the world; and we had
to shoot it to pieces. We are not youth any longer." They have lost
their innocents. Everything they are taught, "the world of work,
duty, culture, and progress" are not the slightest use to them
because the only thing they need to know is how to survive. They
need to know how to escape the shells as well as the emotional and
psychological torment of the war. The war takes an heavy toll on the
soldiers who fight in it. The terror of death will infest the minds of
soldiers and bring about horrible images of death and destruction
until they break down and go to pieces. "Every hour and everyday,
every shell and every death cuts this thin [line of sanity], and the
years waste it rapidly."

"No. It’s a movie that’ll open your mind to the idea that violent prison rape is just one way to solve all the problems of the world and that, oh of course, Nazis are baaaad people"

Right, right. That, plus, shaving your head doesn't actually make you cool.

Sarge:
Pi and Requiem are in the same ilk as AmHistX? How so? If you mean they're both mind-opening (pretending for a second that Am was mind-opening), I'm not so sure about that. Requiem might open you up to the prospect of heroin = bad, but doesn't that play along the same lines as Nazi's = bad? I mean come on, if Requiem actually told you anything you didn't already know, you must have had a really sheltered life. And how about Pi? I will fully accept it as a brilliant film, a very well done movie - but mind-opening?

Hm, actually you know what, I will give credit to Pi as being philosophical - or philosophically-inspiring - enough to qualify as this.



and what if i were to say i was a neo nazi, im not, im just wondering waht the reaction would be like

Super. Did saying that have any point?

I think the intent of American History X, was to show how someone in our society might come to be a Nazi. Its debatable whether it was accurate or succesful in this, but I think the message was certainly more than Nazi=bad

i didnt really have a point to saying that, i was just bored

Tyler

Has it ever occured to you that not everyone has the same opinions and viewpoints as you. That someone may actually percieve things differently then you.

I think the intent of American History X, was to show how someone in our society might come to be a Nazi. Its debatable whether it was accurate or succesful in this, but I think the message was certainly more than Nazi=bad

And in that case it was a poor sell. As far as hollywood movies go - yes it did a fine job. But - and I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone here - I still cannot possibly understand how anyone received new information or a new way of thinking from this movie. This kind of stuff (how one becomes a Nazi) was a huge subject of discussion in school for us from about grade eight on. It seems sad to think that any relatively mature, post-pubescent individual might not have considered the situations put forth in this film

note: I am not arguing here as if I believe you said AmHistX succeeded in it's mission, I am arguing against the possible assertion.


sarge:

Has it ever occured to you that not everyone has the same opinions and viewpoints as you. That someone may actually percieve things differently then you.

Did it ever occur to you that the above is the exact reason I posted...

Pi and Requiem are in the same ilk as AmHistX? How so? If you mean they're both mind-opening (pretending for a second that Am was mind-opening), I'm not so sure about that

Now, maybe the question - How so? - means something different in your area of the world; but I'm use to it being a question asking for another person's perspective. Heck, I might be wrong.

Originally posted by Tyler
And in that case it was a poor sell. As far as hollywood movies go - yes it did a fine job. But - and I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone here - I still cannot possibly understand how anyone received new information or a new way of thinking from this movie. This kind of stuff (how one becomes a Nazi) was a huge subject of discussion in school for us from about grade eight on. It seems sad to think that any relatively mature, post-pubescent individual might not have considered the situations put forth in this film

note: I am not arguing here as if I believe you said AmHistX succeeded in it's mission, I am arguing against the possible assertion.
Really? In my school the only discussion of Nazism we had was associated with WWII.
I've met a lot of people who feel that those who hold views like the characters in the movie, are either stupid or innately "bad" people.
I don't think the idea that people subjected to certain problems in our society might be extremely susceptible to Nazi thinking is widespread at all.

You really think the people who made this movie intended soley to convey the message "hey! nazis are bad!"?

If you mean movies where skinheads beat up minorities(which i suspect you do) then look for "romper stomper", I think its from new zealand or australia.
You won't find a movie where a skinhead looks as cool and righteous as norton did when he busted those nigs breaking into his house though, no ones tried glorifying the white supremecist image before.
Which I'm neither here nor there about, I don't really care, plenty of movies have done the same thing with cool black people pounding lame whities.
I'm just saying, that movie was made for that scene, where norton looks all badass as a nazi. I'd bet more people got something from that scene than the half hearted "message" that they pretended to be trying to convey.
You guys saying the movies goal was to make nazi's look bad is ridiculous.
It seemed more like a counter attack against all the movies that make nazi's and kkk people look like retarded rednecks.
All the nice "pc" stuff was just added so that one scene would be seen and people like schawks would decide to become nazis.

Originally posted by Xev
“Ilsa: She-wolf of the SS”
Have you seen the two other sequels; Ilsa, Harem Keeper of the Oil Sheiks (1976) and Ilsa, the Tigress of Siberia (1977)?

Anyway, what I find interesting is the decision to make this movie at all. Clearly a lot of the exploitation genre is connected with common sexual fantasies revolving around taboos and power. Taboo sex -- be it interracial, incest, across class boundaries, or simply between inappropriate partners (teacher-student, doctor-patient, priest-parishioner, etc.) -- is a common sexual fantasy, and it is not surprising that it finds its way into exploitation movies. Similarly, power and sex are often closely connected, explaining the popularity of bondage, D/s, imprisonment, and rape themes as well as power scenarios (boss-worker, cop-speeder, warden-prisoner, etc.) in the genre.
But where is the turn-on in a Nazi slave labor camp? :bugeye:

By the way, people, don´t take this movie too seriously . . .

Other Movies;
The Shop On Main Street (Obchod na Korze) - An inept Czech peasant is torn between greed and guilt when the Nazi-backed bosses of his town appoint him "Aryan controller" of an old Jewish widow's button shop. Humor and tragedy fuse in this scathing exploration of one cowardly man's complicity in the horrors of a totalitarian regime. Made near the height of Soviet oppression in Czechoslovakia, The Shop on Main Street features intense editing and camera work which won it the Academy Award® for Best Foreign Film in 1965.

Closely Watched Trains (Ostro sledované vlaky) - At a village railway station in occupied Czechoslovakia, a bumbling dispatcher's apprentice longs to liberate himself from his virginity. Oblivious to the war and the resistance that surrounds him, this young man embarks on a journey of sexual awakening and self-discovery, encountering a universe of frustration, eroticism, and adventure within his sleepy backwater depot. Wry and tender, Academy Award®-winning Closely Watched Trains is a masterpiece of human observation

Divided We Fall (Musíme si pomáha?) - A daring comedy of ethics, Divided We Fall takes place during World War II in a small, Nazi-occupied town in Czechoslovakia. Josef and Maria, a childless couple, have withdrawn further and further from reality even as the war circles closer to their eerily quiet town. Josef's decision to sleep through a war he doesn't want to acknowledge is soon tested when the Jewish son of his former employer arrives in the middle of the night seeking refuge. David, the sole survivor from his family, escaped from a concentration camp in Poland and managed to return to the only place he knows in search of help. As they harbor David in their pantry over the next three years, Josef and Maria discover the depth of their resolve, forced to play the role of seeming collaborators in order to save themselves and David

Kolya - Winner of the 1997 Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film, this charming Czech drama uses the backdrop of the Russian military occupation in Prague for its funny, sad, and ultimately delightful story of a 55-year-old man's friendship with a 5-year-old boy. It doesn't exactly start out as friendship: Louka is a cellist who lost his symphony job after writing a sarcastic remark on an official form, and although he's struggling financially he still enjoys the company of several young women who find him irresistibly sexy. The last thing he needs is a surrogate child, but that's what he gets when young Kolya is abandoned by his mother, a Russian woman Louka had agreed to marry so she could avoid being sent back to Russia. The mother runs off to her boyfriend in Germany, leaving Louka with a 5-year-old kid who only speaks Russian! While the Russian presence creates an atmosphere of suspicion and restriction, the deepening connection between Louka and Kolya turns this into an unforgettable film, beautifully photographed, sensitively performed, and directed with just the right combination of subtle sentiment and harsh reality

Tragenda:
*Blinks and chokes back a "what do you take me for?"*

I haven't seen any of them. SA reviewed it a week or so back, and it seemed a snide inclusion.

Taboo sex -- be it interracial

Nae, I disagree there. The taboo would be to restrict one's sexual partners to members of one's own race. Interracial sex is put on a fucking pedestal - look at movies like "Save the Last Dance" and all those dumb chicks who find status in fucking black or hispanic men.

The ultimate transgression in today's culture is probably to exclude yourself from consumer sexuality. But...me, Bataille and Thorstein Veblen are a subject for a different thread.

But where is the turn-on in a Nazi slave labor camp?

Mechanized death perhaps subconsciously reminds the middle class that their world is coming to an end? Ms. Dworkin analyzes the genre in one of her books, but I think she has no idea either.

Dr. Lou Natic:
All the nice "pc" stuff was just added so that one scene would be seen and people like schawks would decide to become nazis.

Hmm, I don't think this is the message of the movie. It'd be very suprising to me if a major Hollywood company would allow a movie like that to be made.

However, the Nazis do come off in a very good light. Let's face it, the middle class of our generation has been raised into white guilt. Now, I am not a racist (and I do not say this in defense, simply as statement of fact) but a lot of us are so tired of the constant indoctrination that a character like Norton's is damn sympathetic.

Add to this the double taboo of violence and racism that surrounds neo-Nazism, and you see why so many complain that the PC elements were hackneyed and misincluded.

Tyler:
I still cannot possibly understand how anyone received new information or a new way of thinking from this movie. This kind of stuff (how one becomes a Nazi) was a huge subject of discussion in school for us from about grade eight on. It seems sad to think that any relatively mature, post-pubescent individual might not have considered the situations put forth in this film

Agreed. If you don't see how easy it would be to become Ed Norton/Derek Vinyard, you have not picked up a newspaper in some time.

Originally posted by Xev
Agreed. If you don't see how easy it would be to become Ed Norton/Derek Vinyard, you have not picked up a newspaper in some time.
Damn, where do you people live? What newspapers are you reading? I don't think I've ever seen an article that addresses these issues(although i tend to automatically skip over articles on topics I'm already familiar with, or not intersted in, so I guess I could have mised it). It seems to me that the message which AHX conveys, namely that our society creates, in places, an extremely good environment for these types of ideologies to grow is rather subversive. If this was really common knowledge then we would see these issues being dealt with accordingly. Rather than hate crime laws, we would see efforts to eliminate the conditions that lead to this type of thinking

Originally posted by Xev
Tragenda:
*Blinks and chokes back a "what do you take me for?"*

I haven't seen any of them. SA reviewed it a week or so back, and it seemed a snide inclusion.

I apologize if I have formed an incorrect impression of you, Xev. Due your dominant board personality, the Marquis de Sade quote you used to have in your signature, and the Self-Torture thread you made I assumed you would have seen at least a part of these movies.
Oh well, my bad. :p

Fuck it, I'm changing my sig.
I suppose the confusion is almost illustrative in an image based society. I am a metalhead, not a Nazi. The image of one, especially since so many prominent and gifted musicians have expressed sympathy to those ideals, blurs the image of the other.

And yet I have not attempted to convey image.
How easily are we co-opted by verisimilitude, even discussing a movie that explores (albeit in trite Hollywood fashion) the use and abuse of "image".

*Cough* Besides, Hollywood is run by the Jews anyway

Oh well, my bad.

You apologize now or I'll tear your intestines out through your throat. :p

Originally posted by Tragenda.

The Shop On Main Street (Obchod na Korze)
Closely Watched Trains (Ostro sledované vlaky)
Divided We Fall (Musíme si pomáha?)


Yes, they are cool, my used-to-be-compatriot, but only the first one can be considered "mind opening".

But Kolya? This sentimental crap was made specialy for American mainstream audience! Yuck!

Originally posted by Raha
Yes, they are cool, my used-to-be-compatriot.
Do I have the pleasure of talking to another Slovak or Czech?
When yes then, "Zdravím". :p

But Kolya? This sentimental crap was made specialy for American mainstream audience![/B] Sure, it doesn´t have to be as recondite and philosophical as in Requiem for a Dream or American History X, but various aspects of their relationship (Old man and six-year-old boy) comprised in Kolya, such as the generational, ethnic, and language barriers are the things you are given to think about. It has a different value, of course, but it is still worth the little effort to at least endeavour to perceive the reality of this world from an alternative perspective.
Frankly, I could not watch this movie again, because it´s so boring for me, but that doesn´t mean it´s abad movie. :)


*yawn* . . . too tired . . . zzzZZZ

I've met a lot of people who feel that those who hold views like the characters in the movie, are either stupid or innately "bad" people.
I don't think the idea that people subjected to certain problems in our society might be extremely susceptible to Nazi thinking is widespread at all.

And you think AmHistX is going to change these people? There are some who are never, ever going to understand certain aspects of reality - and I'm not being too arrogant here, there are admittedly areas where I will never understand an aspect of reality. I highly doubt this particular movie - one which is very hollywood - will open up their eyes. If anyone's opinion is changed by that film, my guess is they're in the vast minority. Personally, my way of thinking was more influenced by Eyes Wide Shut (and that's saying a lot).


You really think the people who made this movie intended soley to convey the message "hey! nazis are bad!"?

No, you're right, I don't. I just disagree in that it's very successful in it's other attempt. And, as the hollywood flick (dont get to think I'm really anti-hollywood, they make some grand flicks) it is, it has it's melodrama - which really hurts it's chances with me.

Originally posted by Tyler
And you think AmHistX is going to change these people? There are some who are never, ever going to understand certain aspects of reality - and I'm not being too arrogant here, there are admittedly areas where I will never understand an aspect of reality. I highly doubt this particular movie - one which is very hollywood - will open up their eyes. If anyone's opinion is changed by that film, my guess is they're in the vast minority. Personally, my way of thinking was more influenced by Eyes Wide Shut (and that's saying a lot).


No, you're right, I don't. I just disagree in that it's very successful in it's other attempt. And, as the hollywood flick (dont get to think I'm really anti-hollywood, they make some grand flicks) it is, it has it's melodrama - which really hurts it's chances with me.
No, I don't really think its going to change anyones mind. I just wanted to point out that there was more to it than saying that Nazis are bad. I think it was an excellent and very powerful movie, but I think they overdid the subtlety of the origins of the ideology message and overblew the nazis are evil message.
Coming away from it one gets the impression that edward norton and his brother were exceptions to the rule, as the other nazi characters(like seth the bug killer) are not given any redeeming charactertics. They're just generally bad.

jps:
Coming away from it one gets the impression that edward norton and his brother were exceptions to the rule, as the other nazi characters(like seth the bug killer) are not given any redeeming charactertics. They're just generally bad.

Which is partly where it fails as a movie. It's part of the standard "good kid gets into the wrong crowd and goes bad, is redeemed by suffering and has some inspirational message to tell us all" confessional fare.

This movie is Wagner. It isn't content to convey a message, it has to whack us repeatedly on the head with the message. It might have been good if the concept and actors (I love Ed Norton for Fight Club, at least) had been taken to an enviornment that wasn't so polluted by melodramatic passion plays.

Originally posted by Xev
jps:


Which is partly where it fails as a movie. It's part of the standard "good kid gets into the wrong crowd and goes bad, is redeemed by suffering and has some inspirational message to tell us all" confessional fare.
Haven't thought of it in that way before, but yeah, I suppose it does.

Originally posted by Xev
This movie is Wagner. It isn't content to convey a message, it has to whack us repeatedly on the head with the message. It might have been good if the concept and actors (I love Ed Norton for Fight Club, at least) had been taken to an enviornment that wasn't so polluted by melodramatic passion plays. I agree regarding the "Nazis are bad" message, but I would have a MUCH higher opinion of this movie(which as I said, I liked, definitely kept my attention) if the origins of the ideology message had been consistent, and there had been at least some hint of it in the other characters.