cluelusshusbund
complete dullard

That they didn't choose to act on impulses they knew to be wrong? It turns them into guiltless automata.
And that's not a worldview I can stomach.
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Yes... all are guiltless... an thats why i dont thank anybody deserves punishment.!!!

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If by "free" you mean we don't have influences and consequences for every choice? Then you are correct. One of my mentors said "The real Law is: Do as you Will, and pay as you go."
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I cant emagine how the chain of cause an effect can be broken in such a way that equates to free will... i thank everthang we do is the only thang posible for us to do... an yet... we are not relieved of consequences for our actions.!!!

I dont know how we got the cards we have... but all we can do is play the cards we hold.

No. No uninfluenced choice.

But since I was severely abused as a kid... saying that because they were influenced to do that, that their will did not come into play? That they didn't choose to act on impulses they knew to be wrong? It turns them into guiltless automata.

And that's not a worldview I can stomach.

If by "free" you mean we don't have influences and consequences for every choice? Then you are correct. One of my mentors said "The real Law is: Do as you Will, and pay as you go."

Why do you want to have this discussion here and not in the thread?

philosophy is not usually my cup of tea, by the way.

To me the word "free" is not synonymous with the word "uninfluenced" Free means you have at least more than one option.
Physical reality is not going to give you much room for uninfluenced choice, because there's often going to be an obvious best.
It's also influenced by previous choices. My decision to come to work today was strongly influenced by my earlier decision to live indoors and have electricity.

I view free choice as "free within a framework"
After all, I can't choose to flap my arms and fly.
I can choose to shell out for a plane ticket.
No choice is made in a vacuum. That does not mean a choice is not made.

Ok- suicide. Violates the directive of the DNA molecule.
Me dressing in men's clothes-violates social directives.
Not owning a TV-violates social norms.
All free choice examples? Problems?

What do"all of you"think about HUMAN CLONATION to have a new organism
that may failed as the Heart for example:)

Oh shit, did I write that? Sorry man, I was totally smashed and grooving to some GG Allin.

Don't go play with me emotionally
Or I will make you bleed internally

Do you just come out of the wood work to make friends? I haven't seen you around before.