hello medicine women, i would like to step inside your mind as a test subject if you please,

i have recently become very interested as to why atheists spend much time debating religion on the sciforums religious sections. you seem to be a prime candidate for my reaserch.

i know you have done alor of studies on religion and its origins, but that is not the focal point of my enquiry. there seems to be many people who insist that god is a stupid notion, and religion and the bible etc are foolish,

i am trying to get to the root of the obsession with atheists and the religious forums of this website. could you tell me what you hope to achieve by posting here, because people usualy post for a number of reasons,

to learn,
to prove a point,
to teach others,
to debate,
to achieve a goal,


there are other reasons ofcourse, but why do atheists seem so obsessed with the religion forums when they claim that religion is worthless, why would you spend your time on something that is worthless?


thanks for the help with my interest and research.


peace.

I wouldn't claim that religion is worthless, I can see several reasons how it can form a cohesive society, how it could inspire and comfort. I'm interested in it because it's so weird, and because it seems to dominate the spiritual life of my fellow citizens.

but why do atheists seem so obsessed with the religion forums when they claim that religion is worthless, why would you spend your time on something that is worthless?

MW is primarily interested in proving that Christianity is a first century mythology superimposed onto the astrological structure of older mythologies already in use for centuries.

Others defame Christianity because they think its philosophical influence within modern society is negative and destructive.

Others may be critical as a way of purgeing themselves from its influence on their youth...religious guilt, fear.

And still others may be seeking a greater degree of faith through a strategy of criticism...following Nietzsche's immortal aphorism:

"That which does not kill me, will only make me stronger."

it fascinates you because it dominates the lives of your fellow citizens? i get fascinated by the same things sometimes, hey actualy thats kinda what this is all about :) but in the other direction.


peace.

MW is primarily interested in proving that Christianity is first century mythology superimposed onto the astrological structure of older mythologies already in use for centuries.

Others defame Christianity because they think its philosophical influence within modern society is negative and destructive.

Others may be critical as a way of purgeing themselves from its influence on their youth...religious guilt, fear.

And still others may be seeking a greater degree of faith through a strategy of criticism...following Nietzsche's immortal aphorism:

"That which does not kill me, will only make me stronger."

nice input,

i have my own fascination with religion, but its the same fascination that i have with philosophy.

so if we were to make a list of the top 5 reasons why people who dont believe in god are obsessed with religion what would they be?


peace.

i want to make a poll what top 5 reasons could there be for this obsession?

peace.

I think it best that you first figure out the obsession a majority of the world has with religion before getting inside MW's head. I don't have to agree with her but at least she's trying to make sense of what is presented by obsessed theists. I don't call that an obsession.

On the other hand you seem quite obsessed with MW and atheists in general.

I think it's assumed that atheism is a product of not caring about religious matters. For me it was the opposite.

Religion is a manifestation of a function evolving within humanity. It is, essentially, our most vital and affecting artistic expression as a species. That alone makes it fascinating. Add to that the absurdity of the truths claimed by the most influential religions, and the influence they bear, and it seems to me almost irresponsible to oneself to not consider the subject.

Religion is part of our human story; even if you don't follow or believe in any, the tale of our species becomes even more incomprehensible without these chapters.

I'll never understand the whole story, but I don't understand how to not at least try.

but why do atheists seem so obsessed with the religion forums when they claim that religion is worthless

I am sure there are countless atheists that don't care and don't spend any time on religious forums or talking about religious issues. Your question therefore isn't about why atheists are obsessed with the religion forums but why the specific ones here do, (if you'd call it an obsession which is a bit much in my opinion).

I wont answer for everyone of course but on a personal level it's because of several reasons - from a general interest in people and history to why people have these delusions in the first place.

I am sure there are countless atheists that don't care and don't spend any time on religious forums or talking about religious issues. Your question therefore isn't about why atheists are obsessed with the religion forums but why the specific ones here do, (if you'd call it an obsession which is a bit much in my opinion).


There are different degrees of obsession, of course. And I'd say that MW most certainly fits in there somewhere. I say that even though I've never bothered to (and never will) read any of her posts BUT every time I check the "New Post" list, that's the only topic I've ever seen her name in. ;)

i have recently become very interested as to why atheists spend much time debating religion on the sciforums religious sections. you seem to be a prime candidate for my reaserch.

Perhaps you should reflect on your obsession with atheists and their "obsession" in order to find some of your answers. You've created many posts and a thread or two on the subject in the last week alone.

Moreover, this thread could easily be construed as merely a thinly veiled form of passive aggressive ad hominem, designed to attack M*W, specifically and atheists in general.

Lets be sure the conversation remains and non-personal or the thread may find itself closed.

Perhaps you should reflect on your obsession with atheists and their "obsession" in order to find some of your answers. You've created many posts and a thread or two on the subject in the last week alone.

Moreover, this thread could easily be construed as merely a thinly veiled form of passive aggressive ad hominem, designed to attack M*W, specifically and atheists in general.

Lets be sure the conversation remains and non-personal or the thread may find itself closed.

i must correct a flaw quickly, i have no obsession it is a fascination that i have aquired recently (as i previously stated), an obsession would classify more along the lines of what medicine women does, i frequently post in most other forums, she posts nearly 100% in the religion forums,


secondly i would like to ask where you got the impression i was attacking her? that was quite a shocking statement if i must be honest, i wanted to understand something and so i am asking genuine questions politely and calmly, i kow what your getting at and i find it strange,


when have i showed aggression in this thread? or is that what you are trying to provoke from me so this thread gets de-railed?, i am not accusing you of that i am merely asking if it is true.


i do not see how this thread could possibly be closed, maybe it is touching a nerve of certain people, but i am by no means breaking any rules, i am sorry if it might be offensive to you.


peace.

Go back and re-read my post. Look for the words "could be" just before construed and "passive" just before aggressive.

"thinly veiled form of passive agressiveness"

if you want to call it that i guess its only fair, but i would call it more "trying to understand something and asking questions"

you also said i had an obsession, where i would call it a fascination maybe bordering a newly found extreme interest.

i have no objection to the use of construed int he sentence. i dont want you or others to take offence to this i really dont, i mean no harm i am interested there is no secret motive for any of this, (not implying you said there was)

i just want to understand something that puzzles me, i have a fascination with this because people say they think god is rediculous and utterly stupid mythology etc, yet they cant seem to stay away from debates over the subject, i dont think god is a totaly stupid idea thats why i sometimes on a rare occasion visit the religious forums,

i think the cesspool and psuedoscience forums are a little stupid and thats why you will hardly ever catch me posting there, (maybe on the odd occasion),


does anybody see where i am comming from atall here? because i get the impression people dont understand me on this one,



peace.

You answered your own question:

i just want to understand something that puzzles me

i have recently become very interested as to why atheists spend much time debating religion on the sciforums religious sections. you seem to be a prime candidate for my reaserch.


MW was a very devout woman in catholicism for over 20 yrs.

i have recently become very interested as to why atheists spend much time debating religion on the sciforums religious sections. you seem to be a prime candidate for my reaserch.

Or you just be an A$$hole!

i know you have done alor of studies on religion and its origins, but that is not the focal point of my enquiry. there seems to be many people who insist that god is a stupid notion, and religion and the bible etc are foolish,


You can't fathom her experience, and btw most atheist where once deluded theists, so basically we just evolved!

i am trying to get to the root of the obsession with atheists and the religious forums of this website. could you tell me what you hope to achieve by posting here, because people usualy post for a number of reasons,


Why atheist care about religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg

You answered your own question:

i just want to understand something that puzzles me

but i answered for myself i cannot answer for others can i,


peace.

MW was a very devout woman in catholicism for over 20 yrs.



Or you just be an A$$hole!



You can't fathom her experience, and btw most atheist where once deluded theists, so basically we just evolved!



Why atheist care about religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg


so maybe she has been emotionaly hurt and feels betrayed by the bible? that would explain her obsession with the christian books oppose to a main focus on all religion as a whole, i have noticed her focus on the bible and jeses, hardly ever mentioning other religious books and beliefs,

interesting maybe it is a scarred psyche that fuels the obsession,


i obviously cannot fathom her experience if you say it is so.


calling me an asshole will get you far, using dollar signs makes it look cool,


peace.

Why atheist care about religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg
Stunning peice of work that!
I had no idea it was actually *illegal* for an atheist to hold public office in some states.

so maybe she has been emotionaly hurt and feels betrayed by the bible?

*************
M*W: Why is it that christians think I must have been "emotionally hurt and betrayed by the bible?" That's just not true. My beliefs are not based on my emotions! I could say that was so when I was a christian, but not now. My beliefs are based on truth. I found that the bible is based on something entirely different than the way it's been interpreted by religions. I don't condemn the bible anymore for the way I now interpret it. It makes sense and is very clear to me, and it's totally interpreted wrong by christians.

that would explain her obsession with the christian books oppose to a main focus on all religion as a whole,

*************
M*W: My "obsession with books" is because I want to learn everything there is to learn about the misinterpretation of the bible and christianity. There's nothing covert about my desire to learn.

i have noticed her focus on the bible and jeses, hardly ever mentioning other religious books and beliefs,

*************
M*W: Well, I don't know where you have been, but I believe I've made it quite clear the books I use for references as there have been many of them, and I have posted bibliographies. You don't know what you're talking about.

interesting maybe it is a scarred psyche that fuels the obsession,

*************
M*W: "A scarred psyche...". Finding out that christianity is false hardly scarred my psyche! It would be more truthful for you to admit christianity has scarred yours.

i obviously cannot fathom her experience if you say it is so.

*************
M*W: Godless knows me very well. We have no secrets with each other. There are just some people you become close to and with others you keep your distance. I was a christian for a long time, but the questions I had couldn't be answered by the religious scholars I knew (who were christians), so I had to pursue the answers on my own. When I did that, I found that christianity is a lie and the NT has been misinterpreted for
2000 years. That's all.

You dislike me because I am not like you. I don't believe in the religion you believe in, and I have proven it to be something entirely different than how you know it. Well, I'm not here on sciforums to win friends, but I am here to influence people of the truth. But it's up to you to listen and it's up to you to believe. It makes no difference to me what you believe, but if I don't tell you the truth as I believe it to be, then I am merely a liar.

Atheists care about rational thought every bit as much as the theist cares about their invented delusions. The two collide for obvious reasons.

*************
M*W: Why is it that christians think I must have been "emotionally hurt and betrayed by the bible?" That's just not true. My beliefs are not based on my emotions! I could say that was so when I was a christian, but not now. My beliefs are based on truth. I found that the bible is based on something entirely different than the way it's been interpreted by religions. I don't condemn the bible anymore for the way I now interpret it. It makes sense and is very clear to me, and it's totally interpreted wrong by christians.



*************
M*W: My "obsession with books" is because I want to learn everything there is to learn about the misinterpretation of the bible and christianity. There's nothing covert about my desire to learn.



*************
M*W: Well, I don't know where you have been, but I believe I've made it quite clear the books I use for references as there have been many of them, and I have posted bibliographies. You don't know what you're talking about.



*************
M*W: "A scarred psyche...". Finding out that christianity is false hardly scarred my psyche! It would be more truthful for you to admit christianity has scarred yours.



*************
M*W: Godless knows me very well. We have no secrets with each other. There are just some people you become close to and with others you keep your distance. I was a christian for a long time, but the questions I had couldn't be answered by the religious scholars I knew (who were christians), so I had to pursue the answers on my own. When I did that, I found that christianity is a lie and the NT has been misinterpreted for
2000 years. That's all.

You dislike me because I am not like you. I don't believe in the religion you believe in, and I have proven it to be something entirely different than how you know it. Well, I'm not here on sciforums to win friends, but I am here to influence people of the truth. But it's up to you to listen and it's up to you to believe. It makes no difference to me what you believe, but if I don't tell you the truth as I believe it to be, then I am merely a liar.


i cant account for christians thinking you are emotionaly hurt i am not christian nor am i religious, i was just putting that idea out there due to finding out you were once a christian yourself,


i didnt say you was obsessed with "books" but i am stating that you seem obsessed with the religion forums on sciforums, you seem to state god is stupid and false but cant stop talking about it. wich i find interesting, because usualy when people state something is stupid they tend to avoid it.


i did not mention what you used for references all in all, i was mentioning the vast amounts of posts you start about jesus god and the bible.



i was merely suggesting it might have scarred your psyche it is a textbook syndrome. and i have never belonged to a religion i am a daoist christianity is a book of morals metaphores and stories to me it has scarred my psyche as much as lord of the rings has, :)


hey i dont dislike you, i think you are probably a very nice person i never see you get aggressive with people, you are polite and have good manners, your views i may disagree with but i have nothing against you personaly, a debate is a debate not a personal vendetta.


again i am not a christian i am a daoist, and you cannot honestly say that daoism is a lie because i cant see how that would work, i dont follow books i am guided by them and make my own decisions like yourself,


can i ask why you dedicated so much of your life to god? what actual event made you lose your faith? i know somebody who lost there faith not so long ago, and she was never the same after that, she was just as intelligent before as she is now, she always studied science but had a religious side also, now she just studies science without the religion, she was alot happier before her eyes and smile used to be so bright and full of spirit, now she looks unhappy when i look into her eyes, she said it was an illusion, and now she sees the truth,

i asked her if the new truth makes her more happy than the old truth, she did not reply.




peace.

i cant account for christians thinking you are emotionaly hurt i am not christian nor am i religious, i was just putting that idea out there due to finding out you were once a christian yourself,

*************
M*W: I will try to answer your questions, since you did seem sincere when asking them.

Sometimes, people just have the desire to learn, and that was the basis of my search. When I was a christian, I sought answers from religious persons in the know. Some of them were RC, and some of them were Pentecostals and other religions. I wanted to compare the answers to the questions I had. However, none of them were able to answer my questions such as who were the immediate descendants of Adam and Eve? Why did the god of the OT want burned sacrifices? What if Jesus didn't die on the cross? My questions, it seemed, were an abomination to the christian scholars I approached. So, I had to search on my own.

i didnt say you was obsessed with "books" but i am stating that you seem obsessed with the religion forums on sciforums,

*************
M*W: Mostly, I post on the Religion Forum. However, I've been known to venture into other sub-forums when I see a topic I need to explore. I was hoping to become an active contributor in the Comparative Religion Forum, but after a couple of my threads were knocked down by militant moderation, I am not comfortable posting there. I find the Religion Forum to be moderated fairly and intelligently.

you seem to state god is stupid and false but cant stop talking about it. wich i find interesting, because usualy when people state something is stupid they tend to avoid it.

*************
M*W: How can something that doesn't exist be "stupid?" The reason I continue talking about the lack of a god is because there are people out there who still believe it exists!


i did not mention what you used for references all in all, i was mentioning the vast amounts of posts you start about jesus god and the bible.

*************
M*W: Well, let me see... I post about jesus, god and the bible in the Religion Forum. What part of that do you not understand?

i was merely suggesting it might have scarred your psyche it is a textbook syndrome.

*************
M*W: I'm well aware of "textbook syndromes." Can you come up with a "textbook syndrome" for people who believe in something that isn't there... it's called "delusional."

and i have never belonged to a religion i am a daoist christianity is a book of morals metaphores and stories to me it has scarred my psyche as much as lord of the rings has, :)

*************
M*W: I would say that christianity has definitely scarred the psyches of its believers who are delusional.

hey i dont dislike you, i think you are probably a very nice person i never see you get aggressive with people, you are polite and have good manners, your views i may disagree with but i have nothing against you personaly, a debate is a debate not a personal vendetta.

*************
M*W: No personal vendetta taken.

again i am not a christian i am a daoist, and you cannot honestly say that daoism is a lie because i cant see how that would work, i dont follow books i am guided by them and make my own decisions like yourself,

*************
M*W: Don't know much about Daosim, but what I've heard has been positive. The only religion I have a problem with is christianity and its gullible sheeple.

can i ask why you dedicated so much of your life to god?

*************
M*W: Searching for the truth.

what actual event made you lose your faith?

*************
M*W: Visiting The Vatican and finding that christianity is a pagan religion.

i know somebody who lost there faith not so long ago, and she was never the same after that, she was just as intelligent before as she is now, she always studied science but had a religious side also, now she just studies science without the religion, she was alot happier before her eyes and smile used to be so bright and full of spirit, now she looks unhappy when i look into her eyes, she said it was an illusion, and now she sees the truth,

*************
M*W: Finding out the truth can devastate someone. I admit that I was in a state of shock when I first learned the truth. I didn't want to believe it. It took some years of study to become comfortable with what I had stumbled upon.

i asked her if the new truth makes her more happy than the old truth, she did not reply.

*************
M*W: I think your friend is still in the early stages of finding out the truth. Give her some time to adjust to her new found wisdom. Invite her to join sciforums to share her wisdom with us!

hey thanks alot for answering the questions, i understand alot better now, i am sorry if i came across in a bad way or if it seemed like i was getting at you, (i can see how it might look), but i seriously just had a fascination with it, and i still do i guess, but i am understanding a certain aspect of it alot better now,

daoism in my opinion is very useful to me, it helps me stay in the center and not stray too far aside, i hate when i start thinking i know it all, and i start looking down upon people and mocking them, when i study the dao scripts it helps bring me back down to earth and start over again, i always try to tell myself "dont start thinking you know it all because you dont" talking mainly about the mysteries of the universe ofcourse,


i have to go now its very laye here, please dont feel offended personaly.



peace.

"hey thanks alot for answering the questions, i understand alot better now"

*cough*...suuuure.

What pisses me off about the Christian bashers is they do it because they can. They cannot make post after negative post bashing Judaism or Islam because it wouldnt be as warmly received here. Is it fear or fear of being censored, it's hard to pinpoint the exact reason.

Lets see how fast this post gets deleted.:frust:

"hey thanks alot for answering the questions, i understand alot better now"

*cough*...suuuure.

What pisses me off about the Christian bashers is they do it because they can. They cannot make post after negative post bashing Judaism or Islam because it wouldnt be as warmly received here. Is it fear or fear of being censored, it's hard to pinpoint the exact reason.

Lets see how fast this post gets deleted.:frust:

she did answer the question john and i do understand why she posts on the religious forums all of the time. i found out a fair bit from opening this thread.


and yes i agree with you in many senses people are not punished for bashing the christian faith and its followers, but others are punished for bashing judaiam and its followers, it does seem slightly bias honestly. but that is for a different thread.


peace.