bad shit happens its time to wake up and smell the violence that is human nature and animal nature,


we are an aggressive animal, we are warlike, we sometimes settle things with our fists or the nearest weapon at hand,

some people think we can live in a totaly peaceful utopia but we cant and its not going to happen, some people need a reality check,

stop enjoying the smell of your own self Righteous farts.
http://static.flickr.com/42/123410200_ca5131fcd8_o.gif


humans will continue to fight, rape, kill, harm others and break man-made laws weather people like it or not, yeah you can shove them all in jail untill there all full and over crowdded for aslong as you like, but the fact of the matter is its not going to stop just because you want it to.


humans as a mass cannot be controlled and told what to do, the laws will be broken end of story, we have free will and humans will take advantage of this at any cost.


why do some people think that war, child abduction, rape, violence and other crimes will stop? they just wont and its not worth wasting your breath trying to say otherwise, because you have to face facts not everybody is nice, the only way to make all humans stop fighting is to kill them all :)

but then all the other animals will still fight, we are like chimps we have a war gene, and it makes us kick the shit out of each other,




peace.

It can stop.
I'm not saying it WILL, I am saying it is possible.

It can stop.
I'm not saying it WILL, I am saying it is possible.

no seriously man its not. its possible to gather up all of the people who actualy would live in peace and make a new nation, but not possible to get all 6-7 billion people on earth to behave themselves,

peace.

I disagree.

I disagree.

thats it i declair war!


peace.

I disagree.

nah seriously how could we make everybody nice to each other all the time without 1 single rape death or act of violence? i seriously think thats actualy impossible, unless god himself came down and told us all face to face,

then i bet even some people would shoot at him or atleast throw a rock or something,



peace.

Everyone doesn't need to play nice, get along and be on Prozac to live in a world without war and viscious agression.
There have been cultures that have had little to no violence in their history until acted upon by another force (Tibet, for example).
It is simply a matter of culture, not nature.

If it is possible for a nation, it is possible for ALL nations.

Again, I don't think it will happen, but I feel certain that it CAN.

Everyone doesn't need to play nice, get along and be on Prozac to live in a world without war and viscious agression.
There have been cultures that have had little to no violence in their history until acted upon by another force (Tibet, for example).
It is simply a matter of culture, not nature.

If it is possible for a nation, it is possible for ALL nations.

Again, I don't think it will happen, but I feel certain that it CAN.

yeah thats what i said, you can have a single nation and group of people who think alike and not have war and violence. but you cant get everybody on earth to get along and be nice,

your suggesting assimilate everybody into a single race?

HITLER!


peace.

it's time for you to wake up and realize that people won't wake up.

it's nature to NOT get over it.

only you can wake up cuz it's your dream.

yeah thats what i said, you can have a single nation and group of people who think alike and not have war and violence. but you cant get everybody on earth to get along and be nice,

your suggesting assimilate everybody into a single race?

HITLER!


peace.

You don't have to assimilate and think alike.
We disagree on a lot of things.
Do you want to kill me?

it's time for you to wake up and realize that people won't wake up.

it's nature to NOT get over it.

only you can wake up cuz it's your dream.

this is not the philosophy section,

peace.

You don't have to assimilate and think alike.
We disagree on a lot of things.
Do you want to kill me?

ofcourse not, i dont want to kill anybody i dont like hurting people,


peace.

ofcourse not, i dont want to kill anybody i dont like hurting people,


peace.

Most people don't.
Politicians and Religious leaders convince them otherwise - they convince them it is necessary.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - Henry Louis Mencken

Most people don't.
Politicians and Religious leaders convince them otherwise - they convince them it is necessary.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - Henry Louis Mencken


thats why i dont like politics or mainstream religion.


peace.

Me too, man.

Me too, man.

people with power eventualy abuse it 99% of the time.




peace

people with power eventualy abuse it 99% of the time.




peace

Don't give it to them.
That's the only way they get it.

Don't give it to them.
That's the only way they get it.


in a democracy we have to give power to someone, whoever we vote for will turn to greed and get corrupted i think.

the usa is worse than england, you have a president who is like a communist leader. we have a prime minister and the house of commons. now the prime minister is supposed to use the backing of the council. (like a jedi) but tony blair ran this country like a president does, he doesent care about what the council has to say,


i call him anakin blair.


peace.

people with power eventualy abuse it 99% of the time.
With great power comes avoidance of responsibilty.

With great power comes avoidance of responsibilty.

with avoidance of responsability comes fear. with fear comes the darkside.


nah thats bullshit i made that up and its stupid. but i had a starwars theme going.


peace.

If we just "got over it", we'd still be wandering the steppes in search of this or that bit of food.

If we just "got over it", we'd still be wandering the steppes in search of this or that bit of food.

And would probably be happier and better off than we are now!

Baron Max

Indeed, Baron. Aside from worrying about the wildlife that thinks we're food, you could have a blast. Raping and killing--after all, it's not rape or murder without the advanced condition of the human endeavor--to your heart's content. Paradise reborn, eh?

Indeed, Baron. Aside from worrying about the wildlife that thinks we're food, you could have a blast. Raping and killing--after all, it's not rape or murder without the advanced condition of the human endeavor--to your heart's content. Paradise reborn, eh?

And maybe the next time around the block, we could get it right, huh?

Baron Max

If we just "got over it", we'd still be wandering the steppes in search of this or that bit of food.

explain how getting over it would mean that outcome?


peace.

bad shit happens its time to wake up and smell the violence that is human nature and animal nature,


we are an aggressive animal, we are warlike, we sometimes settle things with our fists or the nearest weapon at hand,

etc-


Let me get this straight. You think people should stop getting upset at rape and war and violence because you think that is part of our nature.

In other words you want people to stop complaining and trying to stop these things. That is where you focus your energy to stopping what is NATURAL IN US.

Instead of trying to stop rape for example, you are trying to stop complaining about and trying to stop rape. Interesting.

You think that disliking rape, for example, is unnatural. You think that rape is not INTERFERING with the free will of another person. For example.

Two points here.

One) what you think is natural and unnatural is strange.
Two) You are doing exactly what you complain others do: you are complaining and trying to stop free will. Only you focus on, well, things that are less offensive and unpleasant.

Odd and unpleasant.

Let me get this straight. You think people should stop getting upset at rape and war and violence because you think that is part of our nature.

In other words you want people to stop complaining and trying to stop these things. That is where you focus your energy to stopping what is NATURAL IN US.

Instead of trying to stop rape for example, you are trying to stop complaining about and trying to stop rape. Interesting.

You think that disliking rape, for example, is unnatural. You think that rape is not INTERFERING with the free will of another person. For example.

Two points here.

One) what you think is natural and unnatural is strange.
Two) You are doing exactly what you complain others do: you are complaining and trying to stop free will. Only you focus on, well, things that are less offensive and unpleasant.

Odd and unpleasant.


what is getting upset and complaining going to do about it? im saying dont act so supprised about it and shocked.


woah nelly. when did i say dont try and stop rape and murder? your putting sour words in my mouth to try and twist things into a new perspective.


when did i say disliking rape is unnatural? whats wrong with your eyes? i didnt say anything of the sorts, but i did say its natural and will continue to happen maybe you dont like the truth. free will? when did i mention free will? funny you should contradict yourself though, you say free will while saying you want to stop the free will of a rapist.


1, maybe natural things are strange to you its not my problem.

2, want to quote me when i said stop peoples free will? and maybe life and facts are unpleasant but i dont command nature i just observe it,


why dont you come up with some actual debate worthy arguments instead? show me some evidence that rape and murder are not natural/


peace.

what is getting upset and complaining going to do about it? im saying dont act so supprised about it and shocked.

First it may have reduced it. SEcond, those are the first steps, in general, to any societal change.


woah nelly. when did i say dont try and stop rape and murder? your putting sour words in my mouth to try and twist things into a new perspective.

You obviously disapprove of people putting someone in jail for these things. Or at least, you think it is futile. But you are taking action here to speak against such actions. Obviously you think that punishing the violent is unnatural. Your post is making the case that murder and rape are natural and therefore measures to control or stop these actions are futile. You must not think it is futile to try to stop people being upset about these things, for here you are trying to get people to wake up and accept these things as natural. Therefore you have clearly made a distinction between rape and murder (natural) and complaining and punishing/trying to stop (unnatural) because you are trying to stop the latter (without noticing the contradiction of you own action).


when did i say disliking rape is unnatural? whats wrong with your eyes?i didnt say anything of the sorts, .

It is an obvious conclusion to be drawn as I pointed out above. You are trying to get people to stop treating rape as unnatural by punishing perpetrators and complaining about rape and struggling to eliminate it. Since you are trying to stop this phenomenon AND think it is foolish to try to stop natural phenomena, I can only conclude that you think fighting rape and trying to control it or rapists is not a natural urge or behavior. Since you are trying to stop this by pointing out its futility.


1, maybe natural things are strange to you its not my problem.

2, want to quote me when i said stop peoples free will? and maybe life and facts are unpleasant but i dont command nature i just observe it,

Slavery was once thought of as natural and we had a history without good counterexamples (that we wanted to notice anyway). And yet many societies learned how to live without this. Women not having a vote, not having remotely equivalent power in society to men was thought natural and yet many societies have learned to slowly change this bad habit. What you assume is natural is in many cases socialed behavior. There were societies where rape and murder were extreme exceptions or never seen.

number one above is unclear.




why dont you come up with some actual debate worthy arguments instead? show me some evidence that rape and murder are not natural

Most people don't commit them. Certain native american societies, Balinese society and others managed to not have these phenomena.

but my primary point is that you are an agent, yourself. You looked a society and decided to consider rape and murder natural and inevitable, and urges to control and eliminate these as futile and unnatural. So you acted by criticizing these. How do I know you consider these unnatural? Well, if you did think they were natural you would not waste your time criticising them because, by your own logic, if they are natural they will continue just as rape and murder will.

If you think it is natural to want to stop rape, for example, AND natural to rape, then it seems odd to me that you chimed in trying to go against the first natural urge and not the latter one.

Or let me put this another way.

I don't think you know what you are DOING in your post.

On your conscious level you seem to think you are being rational and pointing out a fallacy others are making.

But that is not really what you are DOING.

Courage is looking at what you are really trying to DO with your acts, in this case the act of saying rape and murder are natural.

Take some real time to feel and think your way in there instead of just coming back and thinking cleverness is going to make me not notice the contradictions in what you are doing and saying here.

Or you can NOT LEARN.

I'll check back in a few weeks and see if you came up with something NEW about your own actions and thinking.

Peace back at ya.

male ducks always gang rape and ranpe female ducks. its a very common known fact among people, thats why the female duck has evolved a vagina like a maze, so she can eject the sperm of unwanted mallards if she doesent like who just raped her to be the father,

plenty of other animals force sex onto each other and it is natural and common in the animal kingdom, to any dog owners who have had both a male and a female dog at the same time will be very aware of animal rape, male dogs try to even rape humans legs all of the time :)

and also murder fighting and killing is very common in the animal kingdom and especialy with humans, we are the most violent specie of animal that walks the face of this earth.


yes killing, fighting and rape are bad and seen as ethicaly and moraly wrong to human eyes, but i am afraid that people are going to have to deal with it happening because no matter how hard we try, it will not cease to exist among our species.


yes its a shame but people shouldent act so shocked when they hear of rape, fighting and killing because its been consistant through our whole history, it hasnt stopped and wont stop. so people no matter how offended and outraged by any of it you are, your going to have to get used to hearing about it every day.



its a shame but its the cold hard truth.


peace.

First it may have reduced it. SEcond, those are the first steps, in general, to any societal change.




You obviously disapprove of people putting someone in jail for these things. Or at least, you think it is futile. But you are taking action here to speak against such actions. Obviously you think that punishing the violent is unnatural. Your post is making the case that murder and rape are natural and therefore measures to control or stop these actions are futile. You must not think it is futile to try to stop people being upset about these things, for here you are trying to get people to wake up and accept these things as natural. Therefore you have clearly made a distinction between rape and murder (natural) and complaining and punishing/trying to stop (unnatural) because you are trying to stop the latter (without noticing the contradiction of you own action).




It is an obvious conclusion to be drawn as I pointed out above. You are trying to get people to stop treating rape as unnatural by punishing perpetrators and complaining about rape and struggling to eliminate it. Since you are trying to stop this phenomenon AND think it is foolish to try to stop natural phenomena, I can only conclude that you think fighting rape and trying to control it or rapists is not a natural urge or behavior. Since you are trying to stop this by pointing out its futility.



Slavery was once thought of as natural and we had a history without good counterexamples (that we wanted to notice anyway). And yet many societies learned how to live without this. Women not having a vote, not having remotely equivalent power in society to men was thought natural and yet many societies have learned to slowly change this bad habit. What you assume is natural is in many cases socialed behavior. There were societies where rape and murder were extreme exceptions or never seen.

number one above is unclear.






Most people don't commit them. Certain native american societies, Balinese society and others managed to not have these phenomena.

but my primary point is that you are an agent, yourself. You looked a society and decided to consider rape and murder natural and inevitable, and urges to control and eliminate these as futile and unnatural. So you acted by criticizing these. How do I know you consider these unnatural? Well, if you did think they were natural you would not waste your time criticising them because, by your own logic, if they are natural they will continue just as rape and murder will.

If you think it is natural to want to stop rape, for example, AND natural to rape, then it seems odd to me that you chimed in trying to go against the first natural urge and not the latter one.

Or let me put this another way.

I don't think you know what you are DOING in your post.

On your conscious level you seem to think you are being rational and pointing out a fallacy others are making.

But that is not really what you are DOING.

Courage is looking at what you are really trying to DO with your acts, in this case the act of saying rape and murder are natural.

Take some real time to feel and think your way in there instead of just coming back and thinking cleverness is going to make me not notice the contradictions in what you are doing and saying here.

Or you can NOT LEARN.

I'll check back in a few weeks and see if you came up with something NEW about your own actions and thinking.

Peace back at ya.




no i dont think its bad to stop it, but i know that it is futile to end it completely, because i am not a dreamer i am a realist. you can lock up a rapist every day, but it will not stop rape, you can lock up a killer every day, but it wont stop murder,

im not saying dont put people in jail and dont be sad about it, but i am sayign that putting people in jail for it wont stop anything. yeah you put a bunch of rapists in jail and they just rape each other in jail instead, see it didnt stop anything, but its better they rape each other than little children on the streets i agree, but it still hasnt stopped anything,


slavery is not natural among animals i dont see the comparison to be honest. animals are not racist, a black cat wont go killing a white cat because its furr is different.


no i didnt look at a single society and make a decision about rape and murder, i looked at animals including humans, and came tot he conclusion that animals rape each other, and animals kill each other,

i then looked at society and saw that laws dont stop anything, even though we like to think that democracy and society work, they dont and its that simple, i dont think murder is good i dont think rape is good, but i do think it cant be stopped and i think the world is living proof of my argument.


why are you confusing natural with good? why do you twist my words so much?


naturaldoes not = good, it means natural.


i dont call a spoon a fork, neither should you. rape and murder are natural and will not be stopped simple as that, i think you just cant handle it,



peace.

Your reasoning is very contrived and unnatural. You are just dishonest and your thinking similar to a sociopath. Animals aren't racist? Racism is a form of prejudice and survival of your perceived species, it's a form of distinction. Animals predate on other species for this reason. You also think slavery is unnatural when their is a heirarchy in many animal tribes and can be likened to a form of slavery and slavery is simply a form of predation. There are even insects which use rivals to slave and take care of them. Then who are you to say what is natural and unnatural when you see evidence of things to the contrary, liar. It's YOU who are keeping your head in the sand about what you want to. Humans have been racist and practicing slavery and you want to say this is unnatural yet you want to say rape and murder are natural. So you interpret like anyone whatever fits your view.

It's interesting you consider rape and murder natural yet every species is trying to either run away from it or get to a point where they are not prey. This is a clue to a larger truth which I suspect when someone like yourself is not in a perceived position of feeling threatened, you go on and on about how predation is natural. Proaction starts by not getting over it, not letting things just be and turning the tide in your favor. It's a constant game of power trying to find a balance. Even predators wouldn't be what they are if they were not proactive. Defense as well as offensive mechanisms are in place but that does not mean the offensive are supposed to go unheeded and unchecked without any repercussions, dummy. You fight it for survival constantly just like they would.

If someone broke into your house, stole everything, and raped and killed your wife, I doubt you would just let it be and get over it. You would take proaction to find the perpetrator or bring them to justice in order to discourage this type of behavior by punitive action. And it works just like pavlovian technique and reinforcement.

peta did you just say that black people are a different species to white people?


its called malanin and skin pigmentation among the same species,


race does not mean specie/ and why do you twist my word slike the other poster did. getting over it doesent mean its good, i mean you have to accept it wont go away and is here to stay for good.



peace.

does real slavery happen in the natural world other than with humans? if i am wrong then i am wrong, i dont mind bieng wrong and if i am then i will admit it without grudge. but as far as i have seen slavery is a purely human thing,


i have seen insects use other animals for purposes, but i havent seen them enslave other creatures,

and if you think rape is not natural then how do you explain the evolution of a ducks vagina, why do ducks gang rape females if its not natural? is a duck capable of something unnatural?

and if fighting and killing was not natural how do you explain the countless fights and killings in the animal kingdom?


again i stress, i am not saying anything is GOOD or BAD, i am saying it is natural and by now people should not be shocked by it, because it happens so much,

are you shocked by natural death? no because it happens alot, are you shocked by a human getting a deseise? are you shocked by a chimp ripping off another chimps balls and eating him alive? (well maybe but its normal for them).


:) peace.

does real slavery happen in the natural world other than with humans? if i am wrong then i am wrong, i dont mind bieng wrong and if i am then i will admit it without grudge. but as far as i have seen slavery is a purely human thing,
I think there's a species of ant that gets larger bugs to do work for them. But I haven't got a clue what they're called. That's the only example I can think of.

but the bugs get stuff out of it aswell. its like a co-dependence thing, simular to how the tree lives with the ant, certain trees excreat sweet sapp for the ant to drink, and in return the and defends the tree from other insects that eat it.


peace.

http://ant.edb.miyakyo-u.ac.jp/BE/Kingdom/4445/4445e.html

wow thats amazing. i guess i was wrong about that after all, i have never heard of these ants before im going to study them a little now though, they seem cool,

(not saying slavery is cool) but i guess it is natural.

peace.

(not saying slavery is cool) but i guess it is natural.

But slavery was "cool" only a few short years ago. And ye're right, it was perfectly natural at that time ...in fact, people who didn't have slaves were considered too poor, and peasants!

Baron Max

But slavery was "cool" only a few short years ago. And ye're right, it was perfectly natural at that time ...in fact, people who didn't have slaves were considered too poor, and peasants!

Baron Max

i saw this documentary about an east asian slave who was used soley as a a draft cover for the bedroom door.

she had to sleep pushed up against the bedroom door to stop the draft getting into masters room.


yeah nature to humans can seem bad and good, but its all just nature, the slave thing has been abolished in the west nearly 100% though, but i dont think rape, murder and fighting will end as good as slavery did.


peace.

The weapons of today dictate we must have "peace" or be destroyed. It starts from the ground up. You can't allow(without moral disdain) a barfight and on the other hand expect peace among nations.

To be posted in Philosophy "soon", the "philosophy of the self+1" and the "path of now and forever". For you to poop on.

The weapons of today dictate we must have "peace" or be destroyed. It starts from the ground up. You can't allow(without moral disdain) a barfight and on the other hand expect peace among nations.

To be posted in Philosophy "soon", the "philosophy of the self+1" and the "path of now and forever". For you to poop on.

i agree with this, but i doubt humans can be 100% peacefull with each other all of the time.

when everyone is happy then peace could happen, but aslong as somebody is pissed at something then you will get war. and i dont think you can make everybody happy all of the time.

look at our media and what we advertise as "cool" blowing people us shooting people and martial arts fighting is our entertainment, grand theft auto is what the children play (and me :))we are doomed to be at war forever.

peace.


peace.

I have played all the GTAs and am probably the most "violent" person I know(admittedly I do not know what is going on in other people's heads...usually). Like you certainly know, studying martial arts is probably the perfect way to dissipate aggresive tendancies. I find busting someone skull open on the sidewalks of a pixilated San Andreas greatly relieves the need to do it at work when it's "ragweek" with the customer service ladies. To each his/her own.

yeah martial arts is a great way to vent negative emotions, without martial arts i would probably have killed many people years ago. :)

after playing san andreas though, when im walking down the street i do sometimes get the urge to car jack people sometimes.

i see what your saying though, but my point was more that our society promotes war and violents and glamorises it through movies and games.

peace.

explain how getting over it would mean that outcome?

Getting over it means accepting and moving on. This runs against the grain of our evolutionary patterns. We have, as a species, survived by refusing to get over it. We have survived by meeting challenges, by refusing to be bullied by man or nature. Doesn't mean nature won't get us sometimes, and it doesn't mean humankind isn't stupid from time to time, but we're still here, and we're not going anywhere until we chase ourselves out of existence or the comet comes. Or the sun explodes, or expands, or whatever. And, hey, if we get off this rock--e.g. if we don't simply "get over" the fact that we're stuck on this one planet in the Universe--we can even survive the loss of our beloved star.

Or so says me.

Getting over it means accepting and moving on. This runs against the grain of our evolutionary patterns. We have, as a species, survived by refusing to get over it. We have survived by meeting challenges, by refusing to be bullied by man or nature. Doesn't mean nature won't get us sometimes, and it doesn't mean humankind isn't stupid from time to time, but we're still here, and we're not going anywhere until we chase ourselves out of existence or the comet comes. Or the sun explodes, or expands, or whatever. And, hey, if we get off this rock--e.g. if we don't simply "get over" the fact that we're stuck on this one planet in the Universe--we can even survive the loss of our beloved star.

Or so says me.

yes get over it, accept that its nature to rape kill and fight, and that it will never stop fully ever, and get on with your lives,


accepting it and getting on with your lives doesent mean we should all support it, it just means we accept that its a part of our society and that it is a part of human nature and animal nature,


like you have to accept that mallards gang rape female ducks, its not nice but we have to accept it is there in nature, to say "its not a part of nature" is just sticking your head in the sand,

what should you do in a world like this? just stop living and be shocked by everything that goes on around you? or get on with your life as best you can under the given circumstances, a part of survival is to not be shocked and so sensative to everything. thats how you become a scared shut in,

live your life and accept bad things happen, you dont have to support them but you do have to accept bad things are a part of life.

peace.

Ever since creation, men have done horrible things to each other: war, genocide, rape, murder, torture, etc.. Based off of that observation, I agree that the violence and crap will probably never stop, but not because people are, by nature, violent. It is because we are selfish creatures. Every one of us is driven by a selfish cause: whether to procreate with as many of the opposite sex as possible, gain the world's riches, or whatever. But if we allow ourselves to becomes slaves to our desires, then we lose our humanity. We become animals (like those gang-raping ducks and the slave-owning ants). Actually, any act of relinquishing logic and reason in favor of a base instinct or of a popular opinion will cause a similar effect. But by trying to fight against such things, no matter how futile it may be, people can still hope that one day they will acheive a perfect balance. It keeps them from drowning in despair.

Oh, by the way, I'm new. So, hi there.

Despair is the only thing that keeps me going.
Hi LexicSky.

Ever since creation, men have done horrible things to each other: war, genocide, rape, murder, torture, etc.. Based off of that observation, I agree that the violence and crap will probably never stop, but not because people are, by nature, violent. It is because we are selfish creatures. Every one of us is driven by a selfish cause: whether to procreate with as many of the opposite sex as possible, gain the world's riches, or whatever. But if we allow ourselves to becomes slaves to our desires, then we lose our humanity. We become animals (like those gang-raping ducks and the slave-owning ants). Actually, any act of relinquishing logic and reason in favor of a base instinct or of a popular opinion will cause a similar effect. But by trying to fight against such things, no matter how futile it may be, people can still hope that one day they will acheive a perfect balance. It keeps them from drowning in despair.

Oh, by the way, I'm new. So, hi there.



welcome to the forum. forgive my grammer and that funky smell. what you said is kind of true.


peace.

Mallards? I mean, I think I see the point, but mallards? If nature hadn't intended us to look at it differently than the mallards do, we wouldn't.

It was raining last night. Perhaps we should have gotten over it. But as I think back to the first ancestors who sought shelter in caves or under trees, and recall the glorious tales of history and humanity, from Catal Huyuk and Chaco Canyon to tribal longhouses to Egyptian pyramids, on through gothc cathedrals and log cabins: what if our ancestors had decided to just get over it and deal with the rain?

What is the difference between sitting atop the large rock to get away from the large cat that wants to eat you, and sitting atop the large rock because you have a few minutes to watch the clouds or think about how to make a primitive dwelling even better? Ah, just get over it, bop the cat on the nose, and head back out across the plain in search of something to eat?

Imagine conservative radio at the rise of agrarian society: "These people are just lazy bums looking for an excuse to violate our rights in order to make life easier for themselves. Building houses and growing crops? Why don't we just give the mythology back to the women?"

Okay, that last part, about the women, is a bit of a punchline, but I think there's a reasonable point in there.

Perhaps we're defining the core concept differently ....

What I think Emptyforceofchi is actually trying to get across (correct me if I am wrong) is that it is in the very core of human nature to be the most aggressive and violent of the animals. Pound for pound were are the deadliest animals in existance. We evolved to survive while being hunted and hunter. We are the ultimate predator, nothing else even comes close. Yet people act surprised that in a civilized society, where the daily struggle to survive is taken away, we are still violent, hateful and destructive in nature.

I am not saying we have to act on these instincts, in fact most of us can repress them quite easily, or better yet rechannel them into 'useful' endeavors. However there are some people that can't repress their predator side, or perhaps in times of stress resort to what comes naturally. This is especially true is large groups.

What he is saying is we need to step back and look at it and go, well we certianly can't eliminate it completely, but we can try to minimize the effects. He wants us to keep up the efforts to bring as much peace as possible, punish rapists, punish mureders and try to find ways to prevent more. Stop acting as if it were somehow violence was a disease. It's a tool, nothing else, it has it's uses and as such can be misused.