Please read the text underneath. Humans.... buerocrats... kill! ------------ http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=cjaq33$23t$1@spock.usc.edu&output=gplain ------------ From: schillin@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written Subject: Re: Infra-yellow: Great Moments in Wacked Out SF Science Date: 27 Sep 2004 21:42:11 -0700 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 76 Sender: nntp@spock.usc.edu Message-ID: <cjaq33$23t$1@spock.usc.edu> References: <cj289a$bcn$1@panix2.panix.com> <Cmp5d.633348$Gx4.287445@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.usc.edu X-Trace: gist.usc.edu 1096346532 10541 128.125.9.30 (28 Sep 2004 04:42:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@usc.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Sep 2004 04:42:12 GMT Oh, boy. Now I have to explain the absolute Greatest Moment in Wacked Out Real Science. Couple years ago, some people I worked with finally completed a long-delayed project to build a very large vacuum chamber for testing plasma thrusters and other advanced spacecraft propulsion systems. Not the biggest in the business, but maybe top ten nationwide. Big enough to walk around inside, at any rate, which is the important point. Important, because in order to go operational it needed the approval of the local Safety Nazis. You know the type. They have a checklist, nay, a whole handbook of checklists, one of which involves Confined Spaces. Big enough to walk around in? Check. Airtight? Check. Can be filled with asphyxiant gas? Well, the MSDS for "Vacuum" apparently lists it as an "asphyxiant", so check. It's a Confined Space, and so the Confined Space checklist must be implemented. Issue the first: How do they make certain nobody can accidentally walk in while the chamber is full of that deadly asphyxiant, "vacuum"? No, the fifty *tons* of force holding the door closed, is not an acceptable answer. Issue the second: When the chamber is vented back to full atmospheric pressure, where does the vacuum go? If the chamber were accidentally vented by opening the door (see above, and note exact Safety Nazi quote, "OK, say if you were Superman and you opened the door"), where would the vacuum go? Issue the third: What assurance is there, that when the chamber is vented back to full atmosphere, there is an adequate percentage of oxygen in the chamber? Hint: It is a big, big, big mistake here to acknowledge here that the laws of statistical gas dynamics allow for one chance in 10^10^17 (no typo) that the chamber will spontaneously refill with a sufficiently oxygen-poor atmosphere to preclude respiration. Issue the forth, and so help me God I am not making this up, again an exact Safety Nazi quote, "How can you be sure there won't be vacuum pockets left in the chamber, that someone could accidentally stick their head into?" And, coupled with issue #2, there could be deadly vacuum pockets floating around the lab! Aieeee!!!! Run for your lives! It only took three weeks to find someone with the common sense and the real authority to overrule the Safety Nazis on this one, and the SNs still take offense if anyone brings it up in their presence. Vacuum pockets. -- *John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, * *Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" * *Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition * *White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute * *schillin@spock.usc.edu * for success" * *661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
If thats true, its very funny, and also an indictment of those who let safety nazis come from the non scientific community. They should come from the scientific community and therefore have a vague idea of hwo things work. By the way, what were the eventual safety precautions? I can imagine they would want a button inside that would prevent the vacuum pumping down if pressed, so if you were trapped inside you could'nt be accidentally killed.
I don't know, but you can email John Schilling and ask him Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! vacuum pockets...
lol, that is so funny I.................... huh? sorry, I must have passed out. damn vacuum pocket =]
i think theres a vacuum pocket hovering justh over that guys shoulders Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I have been living dangerously! Now that I know about the deadly vacuum pockets, I cannot believe I have been tempting fate by using my portable vacuum pocket generator (made by Hoover) and just willy nilly move it about the house! Heck! I even let my kids generate a vacuum pocket with little or no protection! Thank you safety nazis, from this day forward I will no longer put my family at risk. /the fact is I am just lazy and am looking for any excuse to not do housework Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Oh, believe it. It's easy to forget how little people know about science, if you are in the field yourself. I used to work with a bunch of Astronomers, and they made a discovery, so the local press came out. The first thing the interviewer said 'OK, let's get this right, it's Astronomy, not Astrology, right?'. OK, at least she was trying, but there shouldn't have been a question in the first place, especially as she'd walked under the sign written in foot high letters to enter the building, spelling it out. None of our vacuum chambers were big enough to enter though, so I guess we never had the safety Nazi round for that type of inspection!
Very likely they do not. Basic scientific knowledge may cause to question the instruction manual and hence not follow the procedure. A government bureaucrat is always safe as long as he follows the procedure, no matter how stupid. Deviating from procedure opens him up to charges of negligence or worse. Following procedure is simple CYA. Setting up a bureacracy is a lot like writing a computer program. You try to think of all possible imput parameters, and set up a flow chart to deal with them. So next time you wonder why a DMV attendant or an OSHA inspector is acting like a robot, you know the answer. According to the manual, vacuum is an asphyxiant. Procedure for asphyxiants calls for making sure where the asphyxiant goes, and whether pockets form. Of course, vacuum does not behave the same way as chlorine, carbon dioxide, or other asphyxiants, but the manual did not take that into account. The result is no different from giving a computer program an un-accounted for input. Program spews garbage. As did the Safety Nazis.
From the sound of it, the trouble started when "vacuum" was declared an asphyxiant. And the whole sorry scene created by someone's attempt to mandate competence, to cover by procedure instead of relying on judgment - - to force the safety inspector to do their job right. So the solution would be to rely on judgment - to give the safety inspector (and by extension the government) more power, more leeway, more arbitrary authority. Which people subjected to this kind of featherbrained imposition will be reluctant to do. Meanwhile, good yucks. If it happens to someone else.