how much damage could a single atom heated at 100M degrees do?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by dazzlepecs, Dec 2, 2008.

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  1. dazzlepecs Registered Senior Member

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    If it was in your proximity for example
     
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  3. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

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    Make 100 other atoms 1 million degrees each? And another 100,000 atoms a thousand degrees each?

    Destroying a piece of flesh approximately the thickness of your gizzard?
     
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  5. Roman Banned Banned

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    Virtually none. A single atom isn't very much of anything.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What exactly do you mean when you define the temperature of an atom to be 100 million degrees?

    Temperature is usually a thermodynamic property of a collection of many particles.

    If you give me your definition of the atom's temperature, then I might be able to answer your question.
     
  8. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Like James said, temperature of a single atom is rather meaningless, but if you took an atom from a collective of atoms who's average temperature was what you state, well, it wouldn't be an atom, it would be a nucleus, because at that temperature, all the electrons would have the energy to depart.

    So it would touch something, and gain some electrons.

    Also, like Roman said, one single atom isn't very much of anything, for instance, the gas inside a domestic fluorescent tube light is a plasma, at a few thousand degrees C, but it doesn't damage the very thin glass tube, because the gas is at such low pressure, there simply isn't enough gas to impart that much energy to the tube.
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The Wikipedia article on temperature is very well written. To quote:
    • On the microscopic scale, temperature is defined as the average energy of microscopic motions of a single particle in the system per degree of freedom.
    • On the macroscopic scale, temperature is the unique physical property that determines the direction of heat flow between two objects placed in thermal contact. If no heat flow occurs, the two objects have the same temperature; otherwise heat flows from the hotter object to the colder object.
    • These two basic principles are stated in the Zeroth Law and Second Law of Thermodynamics, respectively.
    • For a solid, these microscopic motions are principally the vibrations of its atoms about their sites in the solid.
    • For an ideal monatomic gas, the microscopic motions are the translational motions of the constituent gas particles.
    • For a multiatomic gas, vibrational and rotational motion should be included.
    Therefore, it is valid to discuss the temperature of an individual atom, especially if it's an atom of a monatomic gas and, therefore, also comprises a molecule. Any atom at a temperature above absolute zero (which, I'm fairly certain, is a limit that cannot be achieved in actuality) is moving, and the average measure of that movement over a time interval is its temperature.

    Nobody ever talked about the Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics back when I was a future scientist instead of a former future scientist, so I had to look it up. This Wikipedia article was not nearly as useful as the first, although it could be due to the complexity of the material. If anyone can tell us how this statement explains the first bullet in the previous quote, please do so!
    • If two thermodynamic systems are in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are also in thermal equilibrium with each other.
     
  10. draqon Banned Banned

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    basically an atom that moves abound from its original point of location and time in a chaotic manner at a distance many million times bigger than billion times its approximate diameter.
     
  11. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    • Not really.

      You can use PV = 1/3nm<c^2>
      and PV = nRT

      to determine things about individual atoms, like the mean free path, but it's in the context of pressure, which means that atom is part of a gas exerting a pressure, and the temperature is the average energy for the gas, of course, statistically, the energies of the atoms will vary.

      So you can't really say anything accurate or meaningful about an individual atom, wrt temperatrure.
     
  12. draqon Banned Banned

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    phlogistician PV=nRT is a generalization equation...using it in quantum world would be a sin.
     
  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    When I was an undergraduate some of the students lived in an apartment off campus and since the residents kept turning over it was pointless to have the phone listed in one of their names. So they had it listed under Amodeo Avogradro. When they met a girl who wanted their phone number, they just told her to call Information and ask for Avogadro's Number.
     
  14. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    The question is ill posed. The concept temperature does not apply to single atoms. One could ask about the kinetic energy a single atom carries (and even relate that kinetic energy to the average random energy of a collection of identical atoms that do have a temperature of 100M degrees.)

    Also one must understand that a collection of atoms (of any significant density) at 100M degrees would be a plasma - ie. mix of ions and electrons, not atoms.

    A mass of solar wind atoms do have significant kinetic energy, (much less than 100M degrees, I would guess), but not much temperature when they arrive at Earth. Many, if not most, are still ionized due to the extremely low density*, and exert pressure on the Earth's magnetic field, but surely some are neutral atoms. I doubt that the increasing magnetic field strength these neutral atoms experience is rapid enough to be felt as an ionizing E field. - Thus they probably collide with upper atmosphere atoms and indeed may be why there is an altitude range in the atmosphere in which the temperature increases with altitude after steadly dropping thru most (>99%, I think.) of the lower atmosphere.
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    *The Saha equation will let you calcalculate what fracion is neutral. Reason they are ionized is that the neutrals can be photo-ionized by the solar UV and once the electon is separated, the low density means it takes a very long time for the recombination to happen. (Most of hydrogen in space not too far from a star is ionized even if only 30 degrees K (above absolute zero). I.e. because of the extremly low density, space is a very, very cold but nearly fully ionized plasma!)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2008
  15. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    I assumed that it was supposed to mean an atom with the average kinetic energy that a collection of such atoms would exhibit at 100M degrees. In which case the answer to the question about how much damage it could do would be "none," unless it happens to break a chromosome and give you cancer or something.
     
  16. CarpetDiem Burnin' hours, season days Registered Senior Member

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    LOL! That's lateral.

     
  17. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Again:

    A single atom, confined or not, has Kinetic Energy but no definable temperature. Perhaps considering a speeding bullet will help you understand why:

    In the bullet case, there are many atoms and they do have a temperature, which is rising due to air friction as the bullet travels. Perhaps the bullet's peak temperature (the average energy associated with the random motion of the set of atoms in it) is on the order of 100C (boiling water temp) but it also has non random energy associated with its speed of advance. This kinetic energy is not part of the bullet's temperature. If I were to consider it from the POV of a ref. frame moving with the bullet, it still has the temperature but now has zero non-random energy.

    The single atom flying thru space has no, zip, zero, random energy. Ergo, it has no well defined temperature* but in all but its own reference frame, it does have some kinetic energy. If you (or wiki) want to claim that it has a temperature, then that temperature depends strongly upon which reference frame is your POV and in its own frame it is at absolute zero! Clearly nonsense. Clearly wiki is wrong if it states otherwise. (Wiki is very often wrong.)
    --------
    *Now, except in the case of a 100% ionized atom (i.e. only the nucleus), it is actually more complex than the above implies because the bound electrons can be in excited states. One conceptually could under certain condition, (very unlikely to ever occur with an isolated atom traveling thru space) define a temperature based on the time average of the distribution of these electrons among the possible states. If by some highly improbable chance, the time average that distribution of electrons is approximately that which a large collection of atoms at temperature T would have, then the concept of temperature could be extended to claim that highly improbable atom did have temperature T.

    The reason why there is extremely low probability (I think exactly zero probability for all types of atoms) that even a time average of the population of the electronic states would correspond to the distribution of electronic state populations present in a collection of mutually colliding like atoms with temperature T has is that radiative decay from some excited states is permitted and from others it is prohibited.

    I.e. The electrons of the isolated (no collisions) atom would be in their lowest possible states, regardless of how fast it is flying thru space. Even the radiative "forbidden" excited states do have finite lifetimes. I.e. their radiative decay probability is not exactly zero.

    For example, the green color one often sees in the aura borealis is due to the radiative decay of an excited "forbidden" state of oxygen. Normally this state is only both populated and depopulated by collisions, but at the very low pressure that high up in the atmosphere, that state is occasionally populated by a collision and before it has another collision, which very likely would depopulate it, it does decay with the emission of that green line.

    That green line is impossible to produce and observe in the laboratory. A volume of many hundreds of cubic meters of very high vacuum slightly contaminated with oxygen would be required to get even one green photon per hour. It could not be noticed as all detectors have much higher "dark current" outputs, (even if cooled to liquid helium temperatures.) For this reason, it was quite a mystery for at least 100 years as to what was the transition that caused the green line in the northern lights. I think a friend of mine, now dead, Bill Fastie, with special spectrograph he designed to fit inside the nose cone of the small scout rockets, finally got the data used to confirm that the source was one of oxygen’s forbidden lines. His spectrograph design is still widely used as it has only one mirror, twice used, (which cannot move or get out of adjustment with respect to itself, despite the violent shakings the spectrograph experiences as the rocket climbs thru the atmosphere).

    In the case of many molecules, mutually colliding, in addition this "electron temperature" one can also define a “rotational” and “vibrational” temperatures. Normally all three are the same but in certain cases they can differ. For example, immediately after a shock wave has passed thru the gas or in a sustained electric discharge thru the gas, the electron temperature is usually higher that the other two.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2008
  18. dazzlepecs Registered Senior Member

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    thanks for explanations to a layman question, especially BillyT excellent post!!
     
  19. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

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    It would negate all of the weak molecular forces in all the molecules that compose the earth and thus cause the earth to spontaneously explode!!! Weeee!

    If only I could convince someone at History Channel that were true, I'd get my own special!
     
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