specifically suicide bombers.

now, let us consider that a suicide bomber doesnt care for 'its' own life nor the life of any of 'its' intended victims.

i suggest penalising the suicide bombers family - parents - siblings - wife/husband and ESPECIALLY children.

additionally if it is found that the suicide bomber has been 'conditioned' or 'prompted' by a religious figure/fundamentalist, penalise the individual and bull doze the specific place of worship they are associated with.

sound harsh? tell it the victims families from london last june, or the victims of the september 2001 attrocity.

Sooner or later you have to stand up and fight while you still have something to fight for. Alternatively allow a new regime to be forced upon yourself and when you find yourself persecuted because of YOUR colour, YOUR religious persuasion, YOUR choices regarding alcohol and working times YOU can blame yourself for being too interested in hugging trees.

Assinine suggestion, unless your aim is to generate new terrorists.

So, the children of the suicide bombers are not only to be fatherless, but now they are to be punished as well! You silly asshole. How are they going to react? How are there relatives going to deal with that? They will turn, justifiably, on the society that has punished an innocent person.

Quagmire, try sticking your head out of the bog - there is a real world out there, populated by real people. Dime store solutions will not work.

Ophiolite has pointed out the errors of your ways quagmire. As to a real solution to terrorism, it will be painful for most of us American assholes, and thus most likely never accomplished. The solution is simple in theory, but perhaps impossible in action. Make everyone happy. Can that be done? Yes. Will it be done? No, not in my opinion. How do we make everyone happy? Guess. Or think. Brainstorm. Generate a new idea.

Your approach is typical of conservatives. Beat it with a hammer. Liberals have the right idea, but can't overcome the "pussy" factor.

Assinine suggestion, unless your aim is to generate new terrorists.

So, the children of the suicide bombers are not only to be fatherless, but now they are to be punished as well! You silly asshole. How are they going to react? How are there relatives going to deal with that? They will turn, justifiably, on the society that has punished an innocent person.

Quagmire, try sticking your head out of the bog - there is a real world out there, populated by real people. Dime store solutions will not work.

i second that!

A good education might help. But you certainly shouldn't favour families of terrorists above others, because then someone might end up killing themselves to help their family. So give everyone a good education. :p

i missed the memo or the broadcast that said 'punishment was to no longer be a detterent'

and by the way, although you dont like my suggestion for discouraging terrorism (specifically suicide bombers) its a much better suggestion than anything anyone else has put forward.

while we are here, lets release abu hamza - after all he is an innocent man, that has been the subject of a miscarriage of justice, and his 7 year jail term is a travesty.

if only there were some trees left for me to hug.

Quagmire, has it occured to you that pushing people who are already down in the gutter with there backs towards the wall, will often result in aggression action.

In the isreal/paleastine "conflict" isreal bears as much of the guilt as paleastine does

I will not try to order someone elses house before my own is in order.

Britain, where i live is my first priority, never in history have so many knives been on streets in the hands of minors.

My hard line stance towards terrorists is merely the tip of the ice berg, gerry adams and martin mcguinness would be the first 2 terrorists hanged for my money, and those 2 ignorant pigs are white last time i checked.

with regards suicide bombers, last i knew it was a case of doing allahs work, ridding the world of the infidels (all none muslims) you can equate this to being in the gutter, i call it xenophobic hatred and religious fanaticism.

i want a cure, or at least a detterent, once the suicide bomber has done his or her deed, there is no imprisonment or punishment for them. we have to THREATEN the people they love, the people they care for, the places of worship they practice in, for if they have the mentality to become a suicide bomber, then its a case of...

..."Extreme times call for Extreme measures"

im not saying it is nice, im not saying it is absolutely right, but some leverage has to be held to keep certain types in check.

There is always the other option - if you dont want appropriate punishment for breaking the law, simply dont break the law.

By a natural extension of the principles you are advocating here it would be perfectly proper for me to track you down and eliminate you, since I view your stance as being extremely prejudicial to peace and safety in the United Kingdom. Rather than seek to reason with your distorted viewpoint, which bears all the hallmarks of intransigent fanaticism, it would be best to pre-emptively remove you from the community, permanently. Was this what you were hoping to achieve? It is certainly the natural consequence of what you are asing for.

[By the way your foolish and uneducated remarks do reveal the sorry extent to which the British educational system has plummeted. An interesting demonstration of something of far more concern that a handful of terrorists who killed fewer people in a year than motorists kill on our roads in a fortnight, or the NHS kills in a day or two.]

well, lets stop paying to keep paedophiles and murderers and lets use that taxation to pay for better education, a better nhs, betetr care in the community.

and your opinion of natural extension isnt the same as mine ;) as and when i torture and murder someone then by all means track me down and put me out of my misery - that is the difference, so long as i am a good chap, and dont break any laws then i have nothing to worry about. anyway your backlog of work tracking down 1000's of rapists murderers and paedophiles should keep you busy for a little while.

(your opinion of the hallmarks of intransigent fanaticism also dont match mine) ;)

you stretched this as far as 'pre-emptive' and although prevention is better than repair, punishment as a deterrent is the only option availabe, unless you can spot a murderer, or a bomber just by looking at them, unfortunately we have to wait for them to offend, or give them a reason not to.

specifically suicide bombers.

now, let us consider that a suicide bomber doesnt care for 'its' own life nor the life of any of 'its' intended victims.

i suggest penalising the suicide bombers family - parents - siblings - wife/husband and ESPECIALLY children.

additionally if it is found that the suicide bomber has been 'conditioned' or 'prompted' by a religious figure/fundamentalist, penalise the individual and bull doze the specific place of worship they are associated with.

sound harsh? tell it the victims families from london last june, or the victims of the september 2001 attrocity.

Sooner or later you have to stand up and fight while you still have something to fight for. Alternatively allow a new regime to be forced upon yourself and when you find yourself persecuted because of YOUR colour, YOUR religious persuasion, YOUR choices regarding alcohol and working times YOU can blame yourself for being too interested in hugging trees.

As will all problems, treating the source is much more effective than merely attending to the symptoms.

Trerrorism is a symptom, your solutions would attend to that symptom but would not cure the problem as terrorism is not the root cause.

You want to cure/eliminate terrorism , then look at the cause, and look at means of relieving those problems that cause these situations to arise.

It's not the religion, its the political situation, so get your ass into politics.

Meanwhile your suggestions are in line with the thinking of terrorists, so perhaps you have something in common afterall. You want to 'hit' out at those causing terror by irrational and inhumane means, well terrorists are 'hitting' out at those that cause them terror by irrational inhumane means. Difference is, they do , whereas you just wish to encourage someone else to 'do'. Just like the terrorists bosses I guess. Get someone else to do the dirty work.

lets be specific, how would you punish a dead suicide bomber?

my idea is far better than the ZERO possibility you have put forward, and although you say it isnt a religious debate, me an infidel in 'their' terms says otherwise.

remember the life of brian? who said to kill those responsible?

remember the danish cartoons? enough said.

i disagree totally with your evaluation of my supposed mindset and drawing a parallel between my suggestions and the ACTIONS of fundamentalist clerics and the lemmings they have brainwashed is in distinct bad taste.

that is the difference, so long as i am a good chap, and dont break any laws then i have nothing to worry about. So you are offering a cast iron assurance that none of your relatives will engage in any form of terrorism. That is reassuring. It seems your idea is so effective we should expand its use beyond terrorism to other crimes.

You seem to have a thing about pedophiles and murderers. Let's institute this policy of punishing the relatives for the crimes of their brothers, sons, fathers and cousins (not to mention the female line). Can you give me an assurance that none of these relatives will molest children or kill another person? You can? Excellent. Then should we broaden the scope of your so successful terrorism and crime prevention plan to include armed robbery,, assault, burglary, parking on a double yellow line? Why not?

You have totally converted me. Well done. Such intellect. Amazing.

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT

a murderer, or a paedophile is 99.999% of the time still alive after the crime, suicide bombers are 100% dead after they have commit their crime.

CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

CAN YOU SEE WHY 'ORDINARY' JUDICIARY PROCEDURE DOESNT WORK IN THESE CASES

im not saying it is nice, im not saying it will be easy, but the only vice we can use against someone who doesnt value their own lives is to threaten the liberty of the lives they do care about.

after all, they are intent on indescrimanently killing innocents.

but the only vice we can use against someone who doesnt value their own lives is to threaten the liberty of the lives they do care about.

after all, they are intent on indescrimanently killing innocents.


Spoken like a true terrorist

can't you see the contradiction in your words: 'threaten the liberty of the lives they do care about.' and then 'they are intent on indescrimanently killing innocents', this is exactly what you propose to do.

It would appear you have missed the point again, i am not interested in killing innocents, there is a huge difference, i am only interested in THREATENING the liberty of want-to-be suicide bombers families.

In the cases of ACTUAL SUICIDE BOMBERS, imprison the lot, put the children in care, and deprt the adults.

It is my firm belief any suicide bomber would at least think twice before KILLING INNOCENTS IN THE NAME OF ALLAH if he thought his family and extended family would be brought to account for his/her actions.

like i said, it isnt nice, but it is the only option left to us, to try to deter suicide bombers from indiscriminately killing whoever they choose.

As for the term terrorist, although i dont agree with your opinion, i do believe 'terrorist' is a term that should be used more often, a human rights 'terrorist' - a person that fights for the rights of criminals and killers ought to be given a personal lesson in what they are fighting against.

hows about the next terrorist attack only kills YOUR family, im fine with that, suddenly i believe YOUR TUNE WILL CHANGE.

I was in Brum when the Irish were bombing the pubs, I know exactly what I'd do with a terrorist, but no I wouldn't do anything detrimental to their innocent families, not a thing. I would not even threaten it. Its inhumane, and two wrongs do not make a right.

Thankyou

thankyou

and thankyou

2 wrongs do not make a right, please bare in mind that the wrongs i put forward are the second wrong - applicable AFTER a suicide bomber has done the deed.

believe me, AMERICAN FUNDED IRA terrorism is on my agenda as well, but since 9 11 and americans realising what terrorism on your doorstep really means, we have seen less of it in britain.

(NOTE: to the yanqui pigs that funded the ira, i wish it was you that bin laden killed instead of innocents at the 2 towers, your hypocrisy makes me sick)

i said above, prevention is better than repair, LETS MAKE BEING A SUICIDE BOMBER SUCH A BAD CHOICE THAT IT IS NO CHOICE AT ALL.

(how much more simple a message do you need???)

Sorry, Quagmire, I didn't realise you were a hot-under-the-collar adolescent. I don't argue with children about grown up matters. Goodnight.

[QUOTE=Quagmire]Thankyou

thankyou

and thankyou

2 wrongs do not make a right, please bare in mind that the wrongs i put forward are the second wrong - applicable AFTER a suicide bomber has done the deed.

QUOTE]

actually it's the third wrong, the first being the political situation and murder of their own, they retaliate with the means at their disposal and you retaliate with the mean at yours. 1,2,3,

Can't cure this problem with your reccomended step 3 as they will retaliate with their step 4, only way to stop the problem is to resolve the dispute at step 1.

actually it's the third wrong, the first being the political situation and murder of their own, they retaliate with the means at their disposal and you retaliate with the mean at yours. 1,2,3,

Can't cure this problem with your reccomended step 3 as they will retaliate with their step 4, only way to stop the problem is to resolve the dispute at step 1.
But step 1 is caused by step 0, the society that created the political situation, which is caused by step -1, and backwards and backwards... :p

But step 1 is caused by step 0, the society that created the political situation, which is caused by step -1, and backwards and backwards... :p

There's really no need to be smug, step 1 was not caused by society, society is not responsible for the actions of its government, look at Iraq, we Britains were majority against, didn't stop it happenning though, step 1 politics. Unless you want to blame the big bang?

yeah, its societys fault that rapists murderers paedophiles and terrorists exisst, alternatively it is our politicians fault that they exist.

Where is the responsibility? the vast majority of individuals do not go thieving raping and murdering, so why should anyone else? because they think they have an excuse?

thats crap, and you know it is.

there are no excuses, there should only be consequences, and in cases such as murder an example needs to be set - SOCIETY WILL NOT TOLERATE IT

Where is the responsibility? the vast majority of individuals do not go thieving raping and murdering, so why should anyone else?
Actually they do.

Theft of minor items from the workplace is common.
Taking a 'sickie' away from work is theft.
Idling on the job is theft.
All of these are practised at one time or another by the majority of people.

Don't risk challenging me on the other two points my intransigent murderer. :mad:

Don't risk challenging me on the other two points my intransigent murderer. :mad:

indeed the only thing this guys lacks is a strap on bomb!

subtle difference though, i dont want innocents dead, just the paedophiles, just the murderers, just the rapists, just the terrorists.

have you any idea why people commit the crimes that you speak of?

You can't discourage terrorists by killing their families if they belong to a wacko religion like Christianity or Islam and believe that when people die they go to heaven and have a wonderful afterlife.

What they're really the angriest about is America's influence on world culture. Now that we're in a decline their anger will probably fade away. Perhaps it's fortunate that Bush has angered and alienated so many countries that used to be our friends. They are no longer seeing us as something that should be automatically emulated. People in countries that saw that as a threat will be a little relieved.

subtle difference though, i dont want innocents dead, just the paedophiles, just the murderers, just the rapists, just the terrorists.
Terrorists don't want innocents dead, just the evil infidels.

Infidels would equal everyone.

It is my firm belief any suicide bomber would at least think twice before KILLING INNOCENTS IN THE NAME OF ALLAH if he thought his family and extended family would be brought to account for his/her actions.

Might work temporarily, but in the long run it would cause even more terrorism, as pointed out above. Israel already does this. One of the Munich Olympics terrorists said he did it because when he was a child, Israel had bulldozed his family's house, which they do when they suspect anyone related to the house is an enemy.

I doubt many terrorists kill in the name of Allah--their faith just gives them the fortitude to die for their worldly cause. Generally they kill because they are oppressed or seeking revenge.

The US already figured out the solution that lets them oppress without terrorism in the long run. They decimate the entire race. That's what they did to the native Americans. Threatening relatives won't work; they must be killed or ruined. And not just the relatives, but the relatives of the relatives too. Israel has long been applying that method to the Palestinians. But with modern media watching it's tougher.

Not that hard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_Massacre). Have you ever heard of this?

No, I didn't know about anything to that extent; thanks. Guess that explains why Hamas is the Palestinian leadership now. They need revenge.

Those weren't Palestinians, it was the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. The Syrian government considered them terrorists and crushed them.

To be fair, this was 1982, but one would've thought even then that the media was fairly well developed. Yet it doesn't seem nearly as well known as, say, Saddam's oppression of the Kurds.

But what could the UN do? Occupation you can make resolutions against, but once killing is done, it's done. As you said. The thing you really need to prevent something like that is an effective International Criminal Court.

Actually they do.

Theft of minor items from the workplace is common.
Taking a 'sickie' away from work is theft.
Idling on the job is theft.
All of these are practised at one time or another by the majority of people.

Don't risk challenging me on the other two points my intransigent murderer. :mad:

please do not compare and contrast in the fashion you have.

theft - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4668946.stm
theft - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4770330.stm

a couple of pens or some paper clips isnt quite in the same catagory.

as for a sickie - get caught and face the possibility of the sack.

as for idling on the job - well, im sure we could all work our fingers to the bone/ourselves to death. targets are sometimes set, if they are not reached - you can face the sack.

and your final comment shows you as the snidey rodent you are :)

As for my penalty for suicide bombers relatives - i havnt said kill them, simply make their lives very difficult - take any children into care, and ship the adults off to where ever they came from.

no trial, no appeal - just extradition - we dont want you here, we will not tolerate your terrorism, and we will act quickly and forcefully to discourage anyone else from following in your footsteps.

As for my penalty for suicide bombers relatives - i havnt said kill them, simply make their lives very difficult - take any children into care, and ship the adults off to where ever they came from.
You mean Huddersfield?

You mean Huddersfield?

anywhere but not here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4971566.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4969234.stm