Gender identity: Crazy/delusional?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Dinosaur, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    You are still not making much sense.

    You seem to think that others who are not "confused" as you put it or who do not have a legitimate reason to be confused.. As though it is only those with an XXY chromosome, for example, who have a legitimate reason..

    And the whole taught and learn argument you are leaning towards..

    Do you think we are taught our genders? In other words, do you believe that one's gender is what we learn or are taught?

    How, exactly, would a paedophile find someone who is transexual, for example, advantageous?

    How does paedophilia even enter the equation?

    You have not really clarified your stand or answers. You have just created more confusion and more bizarre arguments.

    Not to mention your whole oddball thing now also includes paedophilia, as though if one does not have a legitimate reason, they somehow fit into the oddball group, which includes paedophiles. Perhaps this is not what you intended, but that is how you are coming across.

    Why do you say "genuine"? Do you think that there are those who are not genuine?

    It's not exactly a choice. They know what gender they truly are. And sometimes it does not fit with what they are born with. It's not as though they one day wake up and go 'oooh I think I'll be a different gender from now on'..

    In an ideal world, society would mind its own business.

    Who are the experts?

    I don't exactly know how this is obvious to anyone but you.
     
    Bells, Mar 1, 2017
    #41

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  3. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry

    Others comprises 98% of population do not have problems with their assigned gender

    2% do for various reasons both physical and mental

    Hermaphrodite (human) physical problems
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

    Gender dysphoria - mental problems
    https://the-orbit.net/zinniajones/2...ns-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/

    I would consider these groups as having a legitimate reason to be confused

    Normal male chromosomes are XY

    I was trying to make a point of a male with XXY set may wish to claim special privileges and/or treatment on the basis of the extra X chromosome
    https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/klinefelter-syndrome

    Nooooo

    The taught and learn is not in the context of the discussion about gender

    It was about, to repeat and hopefully clarify your thoughts about oddballs

    Thereare to many oddballs to list them all

    Instead of trying to list them all and being accused of leaving out some particular oddball

    I used a generic term to cover them ALL

    It's better to allow you to pick
    your own group of who
    you think are oddball and to concoct your own senerios without being spoon-fed mine

    The point should stick more firmly in
    your mind after you
    learn (who you consider oddball) and are not mearly
    taught (spoon fed who I consider oddball)

    Certainly people are born with a gender bias but are also affected by upbringing as to their gender

    Probably not to the extent of overriding the biological bias but certainly can raise doubts


    No one made such claim

    However the statement was

    Think of the oddballs who would seek to exploit the freedom to choose their gender

    My example was

    peadophile

    As an example of a oddball

    Then

    By claiming to be female and raiding the female toilets for young girls

    Yes

    Not necessarily so

    True

    Again true

    Often it takes years before they seek help to settle their confusion

    Mostly medical professionals

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    Michael 345, Mar 1, 2017
    #42

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  5. Jeeves

    Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Believing in unreal things and notions is normal. Citing non-existent authorities for such beliefs is normal - in fact, very common.
    Sadly,obsessing over the private lives of strangers is also normal, common.....
    and tedious.
    .
     
    Jeeves, Mar 1, 2017
    #43

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  7. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Special privileges are not involved here. What are you talking about?
    As opposed to claiming to be male and raiding the toilets for young boys? What's your point - are you claiming to be able to ban pedophiles from public restrooms as things stand now?
    They can't do much about bad laws.
     
    iceaura, Mar 1, 2017
    #44
  8. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Self allocation of gender

    I was trying to make a point of a male with XXY set may wish to claim special privileges and/or treatment on the basis of the extra X chromosome
    https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/klinefelter-syndrome

    That sadly already happens

    Allowing self allocation of gender expands the perversion to those oddballs who prefer females

    No

    Not their domain


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    Michael 345, Mar 1, 2017
    #45
  9. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    While I agree that MIGHT happen, it never has. I may be missing a case, but I have never heard of a transgender person changing his or her gender identity so he could follow someone into a bathroom. As it stands now, Catholics are a much greater risk to young children in bathrooms than transgender people are.
     
    billvon, Mar 1, 2017
    #46
  10. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Neither have I

    But I am not talking about transgender people

    The choice to self select your gender is being extended to EVERYONE

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    Michael 345, Mar 1, 2017
    #47
  11. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean by "special privileges" or treatment.
    They already have their perversion - what are you actually talking about, and why is it a problem we need to address by beating up on transgender folks?
    So they're irrelevant here.
     
    iceaura, Mar 1, 2017
    #48
  12. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It always has been. I know several people who have made such a selection. The only difference today is that you can declare yourself as a different gender earlier than you used to.

    So today we have people who have gone through reassignment surgery - and no problems with bathroom abuse. We have people who declare themselves as their new gender before surgery and using the appropriate bathroom - and no problems with bathroom abuse. In fact, from a recent study over 1.6 million people are transgender (both before and after surgery) - and no problems with bathroom abuse. In fact, given that only about 30,000 people have officially changed their sex via the Social Security Administration, MOST of those people are what you would describe as "not transgender" - and no problems with bathroom abuse.

    From personal experience, I lived with 350 other people for four years and we had coed bathrooms - and no problems with bathroom abuse.

    But you are still worried about it. Why? Is this all in your imagination, or do you have some concrete reason to believe that this problem will happen?
     
    billvon, Mar 1, 2017
    #49
  13. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not worried about it never have been and don't see that I will be in the future

    That is as far as my personal views are concerned

    But (always a but) the choice of self allocation of gender is not contingent on you making any move to become that gender

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    Michael 345, Mar 1, 2017
    #50
  14. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Randwolf, Mar 2, 2017
    #51
    Bells likes this.
  15. Tiassa

    Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Did you notice how much the badge resembles a coat hanger?

    Anyway:

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    Ampersand: Cartoon by Barry Deutsch and Becky Hawkins.​
     
    Tiassa, Mar 2, 2017
    #52
    Bells likes this.
  16. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    I did. Not sure why but that particular detail is what threw me over the edge to add the graphic to my original post - it just seemed so "authentically Trumpian."
     
    Randwolf, Mar 2, 2017
    #53
  17. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The badge is a blend of the male female symbols and the ? for the rest

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Michael 345, Mar 2, 2017
    #54
  18. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    How'd you do with Rorschach?
     
    Randwolf, Mar 2, 2017
    #55
  19. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    If I have my Tin Foil hat on OK

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    Michael 345, Mar 2, 2017
    #56
  20. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Do you think people who are transgender and do not suffer from gender dysphoria as described in your link somehow have a less legitimate reason?

    Also, your use of the word "confusion" gives the impression that someone is merely confused, as though they are unsure themselves. People who are transgender pretty much know what their gender actually is, despite what they were born with..


    What does transgender and gender identity have to do with Klinefelter Syndrome? Not all who are born with XXY suffer from Klinefelter Syndrome. Klinefelter Syndrome is a specific chromosomal condition.. Did you even read the link you provided? From your link:

    Affected individuals typically have small testes that do not produce as much testosterone as usual. Testosterone is the hormone that directs male sexual development before birth and during puberty. A shortage of testosterone can lead to delayed or incomplete puberty, breast enlargement (gynecomastia), reduced facial and body hair, and an inability to have biological children (infertility). Some affected individuals also have genital differences including undescended testes (cryptorchidism), the opening of the urethra on the underside of the penis (hypospadias), or an unusually small penis (micropenis).

    Older children and adults with Klinefelter syndrome tend to be taller than their peers. Compared with unaffected men, adults with Klinefelter syndrome have an increased risk of developing breast cancer and a chronic inflammatory disease called systemic lupus erythematosus. Their chance of developing these disorders is similar to that of women in the general population.

    Children with Klinefelter syndrome may have learning disabilities and delayed speech and language development. They tend to be quiet, sensitive, and unassertive, but personality characteristics vary among affected individuals.    ​

    From wikipedia:

    Klinefelter syndrome (KS) also known as 47,XXY or XXY, is the set of symptoms that result from two or more X chromosomes in males.[1] The primary feature is sterility.[1] Often symptoms may be subtle and many people do not realize they are affected. Sometimes symptoms are more prominent and may include weaker muscles, greater height, poor coordination, less body hair, smaller genitals, breast growth, and less interest in sex.[2] Often it is only at puberty that these symptoms are noticed.[3] Intelligence is usually normal; however, reading difficulties and problems with speech are more common. Symptoms are typically more severe if three or more X chromosomes are present.[2]​

    What does this have to do with transgender or gender identity?

    What special privileges and/or treatments do you think exists for the trans community?

    Do you think transgender are oddballs?

    I mean, you think paedophiles are oddballs and you seem to have every appearance of lumping LGBT as oddballs as well..

    Why do you think transgender is somehow "oddball"?

    I think it causes more pain than anything.

    Yes, but how?

    Has it happened? Ever? Do you have anything to base this concern on?

    Do you know of a paedophile who declared him or herself transgender specifically to target children of a particular sex?

    Because your inclusion of paedophiles into this discussion simply makes no sense.. At all.

    Like you think transgender are oddballs?

    Because this happened?

    Why are you buying into the right wing trope with such bizarre and unfounded scenarios?

    Who or how do you think some transgender are not genuine?

    Can you provide an example or case where this has happened in regards to transgender? Since, you know, this is what everyone is talking about?

    It would help if you could stick to the topic instead of veering to different topics without actually telling anyone what you are talking about.
     
    Bells, Mar 2, 2017
    #57
  21. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    It appears you do not follow my style of writing and logic

    Sorry about that

    However as it is the way I post there is little I can, or even want to change, about my style

    Also the numerous questions you have asked, many of which I consider I have answered, would require to much time and effort to re-answer

    And since I would be answering in the same style, which you apparently do not understand, I see little point in continuing

    So make what you will of my answers

    You are welcome to ask any questions which only require a one word answer

    If you want to pick my brain and follow my thoughts like that please do

    If I answer others in the thread with longer answers please understand I am answering them

    From yourself answers hopefully will be one word or at maximum 2 lines

    Any more and I fear you may not understand me

    This is not a problem of yours but of mine

    I withdraw from trying to explain to you

    Seek answers from those you understand

    Good luck

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    Michael 345, Mar 2, 2017
    #58
  22. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, OK. In that case I agree.
     
    billvon, Mar 2, 2017
    #59
  23. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Billvon Posts #3 &7
    As mentioned in my Post #5, I apologize for calling gender identity issues insanity & consider delusional a better description of the syndrome, since insanity implies some serious level of functional disability.

    You are misinterpreting some of my remarks (or perhaps deliberately putting your words into my Posts). You are suggesting that I consider homosexuality insane or delusional. I do not consider it to be either. Insane & delusional imply contrary to reality.

    Homosexual & monogamous behavior are observable realities.

    An anatomically male person who considers himself a female in a male body surely has views which at some level are contrary to reality. Id est: Delusional

    BTW: While straight myself, I do not put down homosexual behavior between consenting adults as illegal, immoral, or fattening.

    Circa 1955-1965, I was often a patron of mid-city Philadelphia coffee houses, many of whose patrons were gay (In that era, the term faggot was used by ant-gay bigots). I was friendly with several of them & the best man at my wedding to my late first wife was gay.
     
    Dinosaur, Mar 7, 2017
    #60
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