2016 Republican Presidential Clown Car Begins!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    That's democracy at its greatest! Everyone has an equal chance to learn how to govern their own affairs.

    Too bad the Democratic party has rejected these ideals into a totalitarian, republican, and socialist view just for the facts that they sound good on paper. (Except their paperwork is unconstitutional before the first ten amandments).

    That is like saying just to be fair... "I'll represent all views" and get bored of the main problems of running a country.
     
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  3. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    More secure boarders= easier training for police. Less confusion among those striving for a common peaceful goal. Less mafia.

    Banning sharia law= separatist movement from "unlawful protest" and peaceful religion. Much like many Catholic schisms... only less metaphorical...

    No more political correctness= answers are more carefully worded

    More jobs= more jobs

    Better deals= better deals

    Or sit in your home and collect a check from the government. Without working while our country struggles to find class workers to fix you ac...
     
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  5. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    So you have no evidence to support your false claims. What a shock! But then I already knew that because I already looked it up. I also posted links. So cut the crap.

    And no, nothing about Trump is obvious except he's a nut and dangerous. I certainly see nothing to suggest he's a genius. A pathological liar, narcissist, possibly a psychopath, a master manipulator of the intellectually challenged, yes, but that's where it ends.

    The other day I heard about a man who gave Trump a check and said it more than they can afford to give. Sounds a lot like Trump University. THAT'S partly how your genius got rich - taking money from people who can't afford it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
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  7. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    An i dont care what Trumps iq is... hell it coud be anywhare from 80 to 100% for all i know... but the real prollem is -- hes stoopid... an the worst part is -- hes stuck on stoopid.!!!
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It has been suggested by some Republicans and others that Trump is a Democratic conspiracy intended to destroy the Republican Party.

    I don't think there is any conspiracy here, but I have thought Trump might be doing this to subvert and destroy the Republican Party. He's doing a damn good job of destroying the party. So if you believe he has any degree of intelligence as I once did, the belief that he might be intentionally destroying the Republican Party isn't unreasonable.

    But, if this is a conspiracy on Trump's part, it has been a long standing one. Trump began this effort almost a decade ago when he attempted to undermine Obama's legitimacy with all this "Birther" crap. That's in part how he became a Republican front runner and eventually the party's nominee. I had thought that Trump was reasonably intelligent or at least reasonably educated, and he was just pandering to the Republican base. But now, I don't think he is as intelligent as I had once given him credit for being. I don't think he is all that bright at all. Moreover, it really isn't important how intelligent he may be. As demonstrated by his public appearances, he clearly isn't as well informed as he should be if he wants to be POTUS nor has he shown any interest in becoming more informed. And I really have to call into question his emotional stability. Trump reminds me of Benito Mussolini in appearance and action. Trump doesn't appear to be able to control himself and has clearly demonstrated psychopathic traits. That's not someone I want holding the the nuclear football or any other power of state.

    I don't think there is any conspiracy here. I think this is just a natural progression of Trump's psychopathy. But more importantly, the problem isn't with Trump. Sooner or latter another Trump would have appeared. If not this Trump it would be another e.g. Cruz. The real problem for Republicans is the entertainment industry which created Trump and has rendered Republicans unable to govern. That's the real problem for Republicans. Trump is the embodiment of a typical Republican entertainer. That's why he as been so successful with the Republican base. The bad news for Republicans is that also makes them noncompetitive in national elections.

    The problems Republicans have faced with every national election since the turn of the century is the extremeness of the base which has been driven by Republican entertainers e.g. Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, Beck, and Fox News et al.. Every national election Republicans lose, the Republican entertainment industry blames the loss not on themselves but on the alleged ideological impurity of the Republican Party e.g. RINOs and with each failed election the Republican Party becomes more extreme as evidenced by The Donald. After more than decade of party purges the Republican Party has become unable to win national elections. What works for the Republican base, doesn't work for a national election. That's the problem that has vexed every Republican candidate for POTUS in this century. Republicans can't win the general election because the party has become too extreme and cannot nominate a reasonable moderate candidate to represent the party in a national election. That's the problem with the Republican Party. It's not The Donald. The Donald is just the symptom. He's not the cause.
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It's now being reported Republicans are now planning a Trump intervention 2.0. Didn't they do this just a few short weeks ago before the Republican Party Convention? They did.

    How many interventions will Trump need, one a week, more? And what happens should Trump be elected? It sounds like the only people Trump kind of sorta listens to are his children. Who would run the country, Trump or his children? Who would be Trump's minder? What if Trump stops listening to his children? This isn't good no matter how you look at it.
     
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  10. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    Once given power, there would be no way to control Trump without a Constitutional crisis and perhaps taking the White House by force. You just don't give nuclear weapons to a man with the emotional maturity of a twelve-year old. That is why he is scaring the hell out of the intelligence community.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You posted nothing of any relevance to my simple observation that many people have noticed Trump's apparent high intelligence, and pointed it out. You denied the existence of these people, and I called you - gently - on having said something you probably want to amend. You are in fact in a conversation with one of those people - I am myself an example of this category of person you claimed did not exist. I have posted evidence and argument of my own organization, right here, for Trump's being a very smart guy. It's not just Trump saying that.

    revisit? ok:
    - the guy can think on his feet and under pressure faster and better than anyone else the Republican Party managed to find to run for President. None of them are very smart? Do you think that someone of ordinary intelligence could have done what Trump did in the Republican primaries, to professional politicians with teams of advisors and broad support and decades of successful experience running for office?
    -He obtained high level academic credentials in the standard time frame despite apparent learning disabilities and character flaws, at a time when the kinds of help now available were not.
    -He has no supporting group, no mentor or patron or circle of friends, no religious or fraternal or criminal or other organizational backing and abetting. That highlights the accomplishments and provides context for the failures. His plans apparently are not other people's ideas, or other people's strategies, or other people's thinking, accomplished via his superior energy or ruthless will alone.
    -His father started his own contracting and construction firm at the age of fifteen, and with a ninth grade education and a set of hand tools (at best) figured out how to game the complex rules of Federal housing policy on a very large scale. You agree that intelligence has a substantial hereditary component?

    And so forth. It's called evidence. It's common and excusable to presume that very smart people are also wise and prudent and psychiatrically healthy, but it ain't so - and presuming that the imprudent and unwise and unhealthy are not very smart, if you are in fight with them, is very dangerous.
    At the moment, Trump is in line to win a clear majority of the white vote in the upcoming election, due to his large lead among white men. The question (besides the obvious question of what's wrong with the white men in this country) is whether the non-whitemale vote can swamp that in the key electoral States, despite the suppression efforts.

    And the main reason that is even possible is that Trump is a loose cannon and head case of a particularly injurious kind. If we were even a bit less lucky with this guy - and it's easy to imagine him praising the Khan family and their son's patriotism, presenting his Muslim ban as a temporary and regrettable necessity under the current incompetent regime, etc, without alienating his base in the slightest - he could easily be rolling this election, a shoo-in.

    Are we going to stay lucky for another 90+ days? Because CNN and the rest are going to be handing the world 90 days of "both sides", and it's going to be up to Trump to keep shooting himself in the foot - the US punditry and journalism establishment is not going to suddenly discover its inner Sullenberger.

    The political faction that has taken over the Republican Party and most of the political media is a long way from "noncompetitive". We haven't even beat the Donald yet. Suppose he does get a whole bunch of white people who abandoned the last election to get out and vote? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...vations-from-the-2012-election-census-report/
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  13. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    My take on the state of play:

    Donald Trump is living in the 70's, he's wanted to be a made guy for a while now, so instead he campaigned for president on the Republican ticket. That makes sense . . .

    What he wants is to be elected so he can turn America into what it should be: something run more like a capo di tutti capi should be doing, namely him.

    He's managed, so far, to make racism and various other odious qualities, more politically acceptable.
    He's recognised how the Republican base can help with that, and he knows there is a large white backlash waiting to be unleashed. If he loses, the hedge bet is that anarchy and breakdown of social order will still happen, as his minions grab their guns and take to the streets. It will still be a win-win for people who are poised (as the Don believes he is) to take advantage.

    Which is to say, he believes America is a country full of losers, who deserve to be exploited by him and his cronies: Vlad, Kim, Michel, Old Uncle Tom Cobbly and all . . .
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  14. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Well, there's the nuclear option, which is where the top brass imagine a scenario like:

    President Trump: " . . . gimme the codes, I wanna see what one of these things can do. Besides, that asshole at number 10 deserves a wake up call. It's good for business.
    Nobody fucks with the greatest president ever.

    Oh yeah, and tell those Scotch pricks we're gonna make 'em an offer they can't refuse."
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  15. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,832
    But wait, there must be more.

    Is the US now reaping the wind of an expensive, unnecessary war along with the disturbance in the economic force of Wall St, to wit, large scale Islamic radicalism and the likes of Daesh and ongoing tribal conflict from Pakistan to Turkey, along with a still faltering economy?

    I noticed an article that discussed the "weird" confluence of Sanders' and Trump's campaigns, on the Iraq war and on Wall St. That both men have attacked establishment wisdom is the meme here. But each man is shall we say, differently purposed in terms of exposing the bunkers.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Briefly, it just stands out that the fourth paragraph of the NYT article discusses Republicans defying Party bosses, which is in a way actually a technicality. Functionally, Party bosses are second-guessing rank and file.
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    To the extent the attacks were reality targeted (almost totally with Sanders, significantly with Trump) they were attacking the same targets. The Dem leadership has moved so far into formerly Republican fantasy territory - supporting the Iraq invasion and Security State, deregulating and tax favoring the financial industry and the international industrialists, undermining the New Deal advances in labor and the environmentalist advances in landscape maintenance, adopting trickle down economic policies in the aftermath of a crash, etc - that attacking this stuff looks like common cause of "both sides" based in common reality and common historical perception.

    The fundamental differences in the bases of the attacks on common targets is difficult to keep straight without sound and perceptive journalism, which we have only as much of as we can filter from the drain cloggings of Joe Scarborough and Chuck Todd and Hugh Hewitt, Sean Hannity and Wolf Blitzer and Whoever The Fuck.

    Meanwhile, there are four days left for Kasich - or anyone else the Republicans want to run - to file in Ohio. August 10th.

    As the guy put it: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sfidmMia...iWJ3IV3S-ZfE5r6wCLcB/s1600/Trump_A_Sketch.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  19. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
  20. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    Wow, just listening to Trump's economic proposals. Basically it boils down to screwing the environment [since he doesn't believe in science] and deregulating industry so that he can bring prosperity and rebuild the military. But we must have law and order to rebuild prosperity, he adds.

    Screw the environment, prepare for war, restrict personal freedoms. Got it.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, there was that. But there really wasn't much detail. Details were almost nonexistent and in a major policy speech he should have had some detail.

    Basically, it was a lot of sugar for Republican partisans but little else. It wasn't grounded in details or facts. He basically reiterated the Republican belief that tax cuts for the wealthiest and massive deregulation are the the pathways to overall economic prosperity. It's more magical thinking. Trickle down has never worked, but that doesn't stop Republicans. They have never been on for little things like fact and reason anyway. So why should they begin now?

    Somebody needs to remind The Donald it was deregulation which created The Great Recession. The other thing that impressed me was his many contradictions. Only a few weeks ago he was advocating re-regulating the banking industry by restoring Glass-Steagall. Now he wants massive deregulation. So which is it?

    Trump is doing what he has always done i.e. pander to an ignorant voter base. He mentioned tax code simplification. Well, Democrats are for tax code simplification too. The devil is in the details, details Trump doesn’t have. What few details Trump released indicated he would use tax code simplification as a method to pass on enormous tax cuts for America’s wealthiest at the expense of lower and middle income earners.

    And since Trump didn’t release many details, it’s difficult to see how his numbers add up. But based on what I heard today, it’s very difficult to believe they do add up. He appears to be relying heavily on the magical asterisk as Republicans typically do. Just ask Kansans how well the Republican magical asterisk has worked out for them. It hasn’t. Cutting taxes on the states richest residents hasn’t benefited the state’s lagging economy and it hasn’t resulted in the much promised increased tax revenues which were to fund the tax cuts. The state has run huge deficits, raided its pension funds, borrowed hundreds of millions of dollars each year to cover its deficits for almost 8 years, and suffered multiple credit downgrades with more to come. It’s magical thinking pure and simple.
     
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trump's last tax plan added more than 10 trillion dollars to the deficit and which again was mostly tax cuts. This version doesn't sound any less expensive. I fully expect Trump will postpone any discussion of details for as long as possible.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Fifty Republican Security Officials: "Trump is dangerous"

    In referring to Trump they wrote, "We are convinced that in the Oval Office, he would be the most reckless President in American history."

    "He is unable or unwilling to separate truth from falsehood. He does not encourage conflicting views. He lacks self-control and acts impetuously. He cannot tolerate personal criticism. He has alarmed our closest allies with his erratic behavior," the letter claims. "All of these are dangerous qualities in an individual who aspires to be President and Commander-in-Chief, with command of the U.S. nuclear arsenal."

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/08/polit...l-security-letter-donald-trump-election-2016/

    This is what senior Republican security and foreign policy experts are saying about "The Donald".
     

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