Gravity

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by timojin, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is important, and worth repeating.

    If you were in the centre of a rotating space station (ignoring air friction for now), you would experience no outward force.
    You could jet your way to within a foot of the inner surface of the station's walls and would still feel no force. You could float there as long as you wanted, with the station's wall whizzing past your fingertips.

    The monent you touch the wall though, you will be imparted with some momentum tangential to the surface of the wall.
    You will move (slowly) in a straight line perpendicular to the radius of the space station.
    But the wall of the SS will curve into your path, meaning that you will contact it again, producing more momentum.
    Eventually, you will be moving so fast, tangential to the SS's curving wall, that you will just keep bumping into it. i.e. it will become your floor.

    But, to be clear it is not the SS's rotation that is doing it; it is your own inertia, bumping into the SS's wall/floor.

    You could just as easily reverse the process, killing your tangential inertia, until the wall is once again whizzing past your fingertips, with no pull toward it.

    This is why running against the SS's rotational direction, run so fast as to find yourself floating above the floor, unable to get back down without using your jets. The only thing that would fix this on a real space station (with air) is air friction, which would accelerate you tangentially, just like your fingertips did.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    paddoboy and sweetpea like this.
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  3. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Question Black hole force is it gravitational force ?
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    A black hole is a mass, yes.
     
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  7. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Does it attract other masses ? Does the Black swallows stars and so on ?
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    A BH attracts other masses and swallows anything that comes within 1.5 Schwarzchild radius of the hole.
    Stellar sized objects and planetary size, are actually ripped apart before that, and form accretion disks around the BH, gradually spiralling in until lost forever.
    But havn't you been told all this before?
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you I believe I know what a black hole is .
    The point here is different , I was trying to se a relationship between gravity and centripetal force , and people crapped on my head that there is no relationship .
    Go a little back in the post and you might see the problem . So here is a case Black hole , there is a attraction force ( gravity ) I believe in the black hole there is a spin, so in this case there is a centripetal
    force acting upon the masses in the surrounding
     
  10. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    No. Whether a black hole spins or not (some do, some don't) has essentially nothing to do with its gravitational field. And again, gravity is unrelated to centripetal force. You can repeat it as many times as you want, as many ways as you want, but it will remain wrong every time you say it every way you say it.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    A BH 's spin is limited somewhat although I'm not sure exactly by what mechanism.
    In some cases a BH can repel matter due to its spin, so that is also a factor, along with possible magnetic field lines and accretion disks.
    If a BH's spin was not somehow contained, we would have naked singularities, of which we don't.
    One thing that we can be sure of with regards to BH's: Gravity is the only winner.
     
  12. The God Valued Senior Member

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    How BH spin can repel matter ??
    You are venturing into something simply unknown to you.
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    NO, obviously unknown to you.

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    It's certainly known to me!

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    Where and what do you believe the often observed polar jets that sometimes stretch for many light years are?.

    http://www.nustar.caltech.edu/page/relativistic_jets

    Relativistic Jets

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    Image of Centaurus A radio galaxy with jets and lobes extending out of the central region. Credits: NASA/CXC/CfA/R.Kraft et al./MPIfR/ESO/WFI/APEX/A.Weiss et al.
    Super-massive black holes in the centers of some active galaxies create powerful jets of radiation and particles travelling close to the speed of light. Attracted by strong gravity, matter falls towards the central black hole as it feeds on the surrounding gas and dust. But instead of falling into the black hole, a small fraction of particles get accelerated to speed almost as great as the speed of light and spewn out in two narrow beams along the axis of rotation of the black hole. These jets are believed to be the sources of the fastest-travelling particles in the Universe -- cosmic rays.

    In some cases these jets can reach outside of the galaxy itself, ending in giant radio lobes far from the active galaxy center. Observed with radio telescopes these galaxies can have a variety of shapes, mostly resembling dumbbells. We call these objects either radio galaxies or quasars, depending on how bright they are and how fast they consume the surrounding matter. As these monster black holes grow to become a billion times more massive than our Sun, their jets eventually get strong enough to blow gas out of the galaxy and shut off the formation of new stars!

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    An artist impression of the innermost part of an active galaxy, in the immediate surroundings of the super-massive black hole. Credit: Boston University Blazar Group / Cosmovision.
    A small fraction of active galaxies with jets are oriented so that their jet is pointed straight at Earth. In those cases we observe radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum enhanced by the enormous speed of the jet and call such sources blazars. By combining NuSTAR X-ray observations with observations in the radio, visible light and extremely energetic gamma-rays, we are learning about the physics of how powerful jets are formed and sustained. One of the remaining mysteries is how do jets create radiation of such extraordinary broad spectrum up to very high energies.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OK, but that's not the BH repelling matter, that's the powerful magnetic forces acting on the fast-spinning infalling matter in the accretion disk - matter that never reaches the BH.

    Still, to tim's point, there is no centripetal force involved.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    While I totally agree with your description as to the origin of the polar jets, the magnetic fields I believe are connected from the accretion disks and the BH EH.....the matter certainly never crosses the EH, before it is swept up with the twisted magnetic field lines and ejected in the familiar polar jets.
    No argument there. BTW, post 21...nice

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    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  16. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    IF THERE IS NO SPINNING Then why are you guys saying Milky way galaxy is spinning toward the Black hole ?
     
  17. The God Valued Senior Member

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    A Black Hole is not a mass.
     
  18. The God Valued Senior Member

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    So Paddoboy feels that polar jets are due to repel force created by the spin of BH!
     
  19. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Nobody said either of those things.
     
  20. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Is the galaxy Milky way spinning ?
    Is there in the center a black hole ?
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Seems again the god is doing what he does best!

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    Some people will never learn.
     
  22. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    A BH is essentially critically curved spacetime, forming an EH where the escape velocity equals "c", caused by a finite mass, that has undergone total collapse.
     

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