The Myth of the Noble Scientist

You haven't dismantled shit. I verified my op with the experiences of three scientists. That's enough evidence for me that the ideal of the noble scientist is a myth. I should think that would be a fairly uncotroversial observation to make. But apparently it's blasphemy to many here. Oh fucking well.

 

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I'll respond when and to whom and in how many lines I think necessary to make my point thank you. The reason I don't go thru your long rambling digressive posts anymore is they rarely amount to nothing more than flames and personal attacks on the kind of person you think I am. I'm not interested in hearing that shit from you over and over again. I get it all day from all kinds of trolls here. If you and your fellow staffers actually moderated here, you'd know about all that. When you figure out how to civilly and unemotionally discuss an issue with me, like when you are posting to Yazata, then we can try it again. Till then, yeah, you're on my backburner.

 

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How the hell have you not been permabanned yet?

 

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You wanna get me banned? Report me then if I'm breaking some rules here.

 

Typical...A flaming personal attack just because I won't respond to his other flaming post. "Oh yeah! This should get him to respond!" lol! You should really go over those Sci Forum rules again there James. All that stuff about respecting the poster and such? Why don't you lead us by example? Are you even mature enough for that?

 

LOL. He and many others have dismantled your entire argument.

Literally you have given a personal opinion based on very little in the broad scope of things and have stated that because of that EVERYONE is exactly how you see them, despite not knowing them. Its very little different than saying all black people are thieves because you watched 3 steal before LOL.

You really lack basic reasoning and logic.

You have gotten destroyed in your own thread repetitively lolol. But you are so determined to convince yourself that you aren't as wrong as the rest of the world whom are capable of critical thinking know you are that you look at reality and pretend its not there.

But please, continue preaching your opinion as if it is fact, and not just your own perceptions...which they are. LOL.

P.S. The only "blasphemy" in this thread is that your amount of unfiltered stupidity spouts "points" that have so little for their basis, and so easily defeated, and continues. There is no way that you dont actually see how easily beaten your logic has been. I think you are just an angry person who is mad at science and scientists for being smarter than yourself, and not pretending otherwise.

 

See, the problem is that even though you've hit on the truth, you're still looking to blame the easy target. Complaining about scientists is easy, just like complaining about cheeseburgers is easy. But in either case, the problem is "the System". Why the terrible conditions for livestock? It's not the "evil farmers", but the business model that controls food production and distribution; it is not actually about food, but, rather, money. The same with science. Maybe it would be better, for instance, to cure a disease instead of making boner pills, but the business model says otherwise. Maybe it would be better to learn about the Universe than build murder devices, but the business model says otherwise.

Here's one: How about the myth of the evil coder?

No, really, the software market sucks; it's terribly disjointed, not running on any particular standard despite having published standards, and the biggest reason your information superhighway is so quirky and unpredictable isn't the information itself, nor even the people who author the software that manipulates the information. Rather, the information and its transfer are merely pesky hoops these companies have to jump through in order to take the money in your pocket that they consider rightly theirs.

The problem is the business model.

Seriously, what does HTML 5 get you? Not much. Candy-coated templates, a few bells and whistles that merely look a little better than their predecessors, slower results from your computer, and more opportunities to buy stuff. What does the business community get? A lot more analytics to help them figure out how to advertise opportunities to buy stuff.

So before you crucify the scientists, you might take a few minutes to consider how many capitalists you need to line up in front of the ditch. Because after those scientists are gone, the capitalists will just hire new ones to keep doing all the stuff you complain about.

I know a doctor who used to loathe pharmaceutical representatives. At one point, he wouldn't see them at all. Then he would see them, but only for five minutes on restricted terms with the bottom line being, "Leave the goods." And for a while, he used the samples to keep patients alive because the health care system held the drugs otherwise out of their financial reach.

So did the doctor sell out? Is he evil? How many doctors should we get rid of in order to make the problem of limited pharmaceutical access go away?

Or maybe we should sit down and have a chat with pharma execs?

Because the doctor is a doctor. His job is to keep people alive and healthy, and if he has to suck off big pharma in order to do so, well, I can tell you this much, he's one hell of a doctor.

Everybody wants moral perfection. It's an easy thing to demand. Actually building our society in such a fashion as to permit and encourage its pursuit is a hell of a lot harder.

 

Tiassa

Im genuinely impressed with the way you explained that.

I'm sure MR will ignore it has he has the multitude of other arguments but that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

And an unfortunate reality is, I cant imagine the system changing. How could it? I mean, we are to selfish. For instance seeking the cure for cancer would probably go alot quicker and easier if everyone gave thier extra money they earned to the search. (Or the multitude of other diseases) But instead, I personally bought an xbox one video game.

So it is most likely not going to change, people will continue to use thier hard earned cash on themselves (not REALLY a bad thing), company owners will push THIER company in the direction that matters to them. Etc. Unless humans bevame "hive minded" like bees or ants it is just an unfortunate reality of our nature.

That being said its not all doom n gloom. There are plenty of selfless acts occuring everyday.

 

Here is an interesting article on how the distrust of scientists has crept in to popular culture:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-moment-when-science-fiction-split-off-from-competen-1112227008

 

Well, I wouldn't exactly crucify the scientists. I'd just stand beside the cheering parade of scientism and strutting white-coated primadonnas and utter ever so softly, "The emperor is naked." After that I MIGHT put the corporate capitalists in a firing line of paintball guns, even granting them one last puff on a roach. Everyone except Bill Gates and Elon Musk and Warren Buffet. They seem pretty cool.

 

Your stance on issues such as this might be addressed more seriously if they weren't loaded with emotion and bitterness. It makes it very clear that this is more of a soapbox than a discussion.
Remember when someone suggested they expected you to not post things in good faith? You definitely have an agenda here. It's not like you are open to modification of your views, steeped in emotion as they are.

It might be more appropriate for respondents, instead of addressing the issues raised, to say 'I hear your pain. That must be very hard for you.'

Just a thought.

 

Me emotional? Not in a pig's eye...

 

Stop lol

It's so obvious...

 

You're kidding, right?

 

LOL! You so desperately want me to be a certain way don't you? Like it really matters to the legitimacy of the OP if you can attack my motives. Keep trying!

 

I am responding to the words you have posted.

Highly emotionally-charged rhetoric:

"Well, I wouldn't exactly crucify the scientists. I'd just stand beside the cheering parade of scientism and strutting white-coated primadonnas and utter ever so softly, "The emperor is naked." After that I MIGHT put the corporate capitalists in a firing line of paintball guns, even granting them one last puff on a roach."

"I doubt that scientists are any more virtuous than anyone else. The ones who don't take science as some value system are probably egocentric careerists only in it for the money anyway. The ones who DO take science to be some grand enterprise are otoh snotty elitists who look down on humanity as ignorant and in desperate need of their guidance. Such is the cost of making out of your values some absolute program for world betterment. A totalitarian utopia where all are educated in the "truth" and all dissent has been crushed forever."


This is not the stuff of debate; this is the stuff of a diatribe.

 

No emotion there at all. It's called vivid prose. Go back to English class and learn about it. The only emotion I have here is amusement at the vicious defensiveness and personal attacks of those who worship science like an infallible God. It's like when I used to debate fundies, damning me to hell and shit. This is just standard fanatical vitriol for me. I'm used to it.

 

It's called rhetoric. It comes from your feelings and beliefs.
You cannot defend a claim such as scientists in general being "...snotty elitists who look down on humanity as ignorant and in desperate need of their guidance..."
Nor can you honestly claim to have witnessed "strutting white-coated primadonnas".
Those are inventions of your imagination. And they are fraught with bitterness.

 

Ooooo. I'm so bitter for claiming scientists are just greed driven humans. lol!