Why ISIS is rich (oil only small part of why)

Yes, all this with Russian reporters very close,

They argue that this was a planned action, thus, the issue is not at all an actual violation of the Turkish border. The point that there was a lot of videos about this, even from the hit itself, and from the Turkish side, is some indirect evidence for this. I think this is a test how Russia reacts, to find out how it would react to a no fly zone which Turkey wants very very much.

 

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It just shows how crazy our global media is at the moment.
It is now being reported that the Russian Pilot has been returned to base, alive and well. ( co-pilot and a rescue soldier deceased)
src: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34917485

 

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Yes, Putin has also said this in http://rusvesna.su/news/1448450802 where he also says that there will be more measures taken for future security, in particular, S-300 will be put on the Russian airbase. http://rusvesna.su/news/1448443025 claims that it will be even S-400.

 

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Schmelzer
Do you think Putin owes Turkey an apology for pushing their buttons so to speak?

"Pushing their buttons" means aggravating a tense boundary or border situation with Turkey.

 

Sorry, but I don't understand. Putin has, of course, done some very bad things to Erdogan, namely destroying his plans for Syria (to get rid of Assad, splitting Syria into parts, with the IS part for a pipeline from Saudi-Arabia/Qatar to Turkey), and, possibly even worse, has killed now his oil smuggling business (people claim that all the income out of this not going to IS goes to Erdogans son). But I would not name this something for which Putin owes Turkey something.

 

is beginning to smell of bullshit?

 

I'd give a buck to listen in on the Putin/Erdogan phone call.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

(Quick, call in the spin doctors?)

 

Well, here is the thing, there is no evidence to the contrary and it is certainly plausible Russians were given 10 warnings prior to being shot down. All the Russian pilots needed to do was turn their aircraft South as requested. Additionally, as previously discussed and ignored by Russian state advocates, this was just the most recent Russian incursion into Turkish airspace. Russia has been privately and publicly warned by Turkey on every violation of Turkish airspace. At some point, Russia needs to be held accountable for its profligacy.

 

Yes, but it will never come. Putin isn't the kind of guy who apologizes. It would go against his carefully cultivated tough guy image he and his Russian devotees so value. What is interesting, is the fact he is backing away. He isn't ready to go to war with NATO. So while Comrade Schmelzer thinks, or at least represents he thinks, Mother Russia can wipe NATO off the map. It's very clear, Putin knows otherwise.

Putin is placing Russia's latest air defense system in Syria, that's his tough retaliation for Turkey's response to his repeated violation of Turkish airspace. The truth is Syria already has a Russian air defense system. The truth is, additional Russian air defense systems in Syria do nothing and change nothing in Syria. It's just a face saving measure for the folks back home. It's like his embargo of fruits and vegetables in response to Western sanctions for his invasion and annexations of neighboring states.

I think it's good Turkey bloodied Putin's nose. Maybe, just maybe, going forward Putin will be a little less reckless.

 

Russia now says one of the aircraft's crew members survived and has been retrieved. They paraded this man before a limited number of reporters but they wouldn't allow them to photograph his face. Why would they not allow reporters to take his picture of his face? I find that a bit curious. Could it be that the man wasn't part of the crew? Could it be, he and Mother Russia are perpetrating another fraud?

It's very odd Russia would only let reporters photograph his backside. My guess is the two crew members were killed and this is another face saving attempt by Putin.

 

yeah.. some of the things people do to get social media attention is amazing when you think on it...

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ie. Putin's butt goes viral... oops! Pilots butt goes viral...

 

Some have suggested that deployment of the S-400 system would be a game changer in Syria. But with the game so screwed up and confused I don't see how it could make one iota of difference.

There was so called "news" about 2 months ago that the system had been deployed in Syria...any ways...

 

Let us assume that the turks warned the russians for this particular flight several times.
Let us further assume that the russian pilot chose to ignore the warnings and cross over turkish territory.

What was he thinking?
Was he "playing chicken"?
Was he suicidal?
Did he just not take the turks seriously?

Or the russian heard the warnings and stayed over syria and the trigger happy turk shot him anyway?
A link above claimed that from the heat signature, the russian was shot over syria.

 

or it was a deliberate attempt to provoke an incident so that Putin would have an excuse to shut down Syrian air space completely under the guise of protecting his "legitimate" air assets.
Enforcing a no fly zone over Syria would grant him license to put boots on the ground.

 

Yes, there have been people who have claimed that it already is there. But it was denied by Russia, and not even claimed by the US. There was some good air defense, and the US has raised this question, why do you have air defense, once the IS has no airplanes. So, now it is clear why - so, now there will be S-400.

I'm not a military specialist, but it is known that Israel is quite unhappy that the Iran now gets S-300. And there was a lot of speculation and diplomatic pressure in the past about the question of giving S-300 to Syria. So I think it is not only propaganda, but these systems seem to be really good.

Game changer or not, what I have heard is that the Turkish planes are now on the ground. Seems, they have no interest to try out. What it should prevent are no-fly zones against Assad imposed by the US. Now we seem to have a no-fly zone for Turkey.

BTW: Putin does not want boots on the ground. The boots on the ground provide Syria, Shiits from Iraq, Iran, Hesbollah. This should be enough. And they all can fight - not like the Iraq army paid by the US, which run away seeing some bearded men.

 

Doesn't look like Putin is impressed. The Turkish aircraft is now on the ground, the Russian not, it has demonstratively bombed the near border area even more. And bombed also near the Turkish border north of Aleppo, some say even some border crossing, but I think they mean only near. This is demonstratively the zone in which Erdogan dreamed of creating a no fly zone.

http://www.almasdarnews.com/article...the-number-of-airstrikes-in-northern-latakia/ writes that Russia has intensified the air strikes, and that they demonstratively follow the same path.

 

Shall we pause for a bay of pigs moment?

 

You seem to be forgetting all the prior illegal Russian incursions into Turkish airspace.

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Well that depends on what Putin wants to do. If Putin decides to attack a NATO country, he will have a Bay of Pigs moment, one he will likely not survive and Mother Russia most definitely will not.

 

Well, unnamed sources aren't very reliable. Two, if Putin has done all those things your article said he did, then why hasn't Russia announced those changes? It announced it was sending the missile systems. Why not all that other stuff? Putin has been embarrassed, he's trying to show he is a bad-ass so why wouldn't he mentioned those additional measures?

Is Putin impressed with Turkey's response? Obviously not. He's embarrassed. He got his nose punched. Putin has invested a lot in building his image as a bad-ass, posing with drugged tigers and bears, riding around bare-chested, filming portions of his martial arts sessions, playing rigged athletic games. So yeah, Putin is not impressed. He is embarrassed. The image he values so much has been damaged. Now the question remains, is Putin willing to sacrifice the lives of 140 million Russians to satisfy his embarrassment?