Circumcision is a crime now in Germany

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Syzygys, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I dare say you haven't any idea about the sensitivity of my penis... and if you do, then I fear a quick chat with the police may be in order.
    Additionally, sex is plenty stimulating, for both my wife and I... and is most certainly not a "mindless pounding"; guys that mindlessly plug away into a girl and wonder why neither is being satisfied... well, the issue isn't necessarily with their equipment, it's how they are using it.

    And as i said, I can understand wishing to leave that choice to them - however, making it illegal seems a bit silly to me. I'd rather keep it legal and have it done by doctors that know what they are doing, rather than making it illegal and having people getting it done by shady people in a box truck behind WalMart.

    As for the cleanliness bit - no doubt you can keep an uncircumcised penis just as clean as a circumcised one (perhaps more so, due to the increase of natural oils and protection that the foreskin offers).

    I am somewhat confused about one thing, though... from this article here

    Okay... possible decrease in UTI I can kind of understand - though I would imagine that has more to do with people simply not cleaning themselves properly more than anything.

    Lower risk of cancer in the penis and cervix of sexual partners... how?


     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Well, a quick search:

    So... again, as with UTI issues, it seems it is more an issue with Hygiene than the circumcision itself.

    Lower risk of STD/HIV... what? Why should a flap of skin matter in this?

    This is what I'm finding on it:

    I'm... not entirely sure on this. Again, it seems like it comes down more to an issue with personal hygiene than it does with the circumcision itself (or lack thereof).

    So... I dunno - Bells, if you want and feel it is warranted, I wouldn't mind your husband and/or sons' inputs on this - I would imagine that the only real difference in hygiene is the need to simply pull back the foreskin and wash the area therein, correct?

    If so... then why is such a big deal being made about this? I fear I already know the answer (pressure from religious groups combined with poorly designed/implemented "scientific studies"), though I hope I am wrong.

    EDIT - Good GRIEF this 10k character limit is annoying...
     
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  5. madethesame Banned Banned

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    circumcision is related to Abrahmic traditions.
    they lived in desert where the flying sand stuck on their wand. they did not had water to clean their wand, which would cause many diseases.
    so as last resort they started this practice.

    cicumcision affects sexual pleasures of both men and women.
     
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  7. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Liberals are messed up. You can kill the unborn but don't harm the foreskin.
     
  8. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    You keep claiming to know more about my (and others) sexual pleasure than I do about my own... do you have any actual facts to back that up?
     
  9. madethesame Banned Banned

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    circumcised penis is unable to hold vaginal fluids. during intercourse, this fluid leaks, which makes sex irritable for women.

    ofcouse. you can grow your foreskin back and enjoy the sensations.

    most people have no idea that sex is to be done for minimum one hour. circumcised penis is not capable, as vaginal fluids flow down.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2014
  10. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Uh huh... in that case:

    1) KY Jelly (or any number of other lubricants on the market) are available for those women whom suffer from insufficient vaginal lubrication
    2) It's been our experience (my wife and I) that this is untrue, or at least not an issue for us. I would think this has more to do with the size of the organs in question, overall lubrication of the vagina itself, and what is being done during intercourse. My wife and I have had several lovemaking sessions lasting in excess of 45 minutes to an hour (and we do not use any sort of lubrication) and I can safely say this - her "drying out" was never a factor in ending our playtime... more often than not, it was our own physical stamina

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    Right... I can say quite safely that I don't have to keep trimming my penis, so foreskin growing back doesn't seem to be something that's going on, at least for me.

    I also was not aware that there was a "minimum" time limit for sex - can you please explain who established this rule, by what means, and for what reason?
     
  11. madethesame Banned Banned

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    this jelly wont do anything other than making sex slippery.
    ( i am bad in english, in not writing any personal remarks okay cheers

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    )
    i have written atleast one hour exlcuding any foreplay. http://www.whale.to/a/howe_b.html
    read this full. it is important.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    This is your post here:

    ...

    ...

    I honestly don't know how to respond to that. The sperm do not "generate and store sexual energy" - they have no method of doing so. Sperm are single cells containing 23 Chromosomes, which joins the Egg, also containing 23 Chromosomes - until those two merge, you do not have a living "entity" per say. While yes, creating sperm takes up a fairly decent amount of resources from the body, there is nothing to suggest that they "store energy" that is then sent to the brain and body during arousal.

    It sounds like someone took a book on meridians, qi, and the bioelectric energy of the body and decided to mash them together with the kama sutra... in other words, terrible terrible pseudo science that has no basis in observable fact.
     
  13. madethesame Banned Banned

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    pls read all. i am here to explain. you will undertand then only and expeience is important. dont forget to try the skills

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    .​
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I did read - as I said, the "science" in that article is horrendous. The transfer of energy they are referring to is not a transfer so much as it is the increase of oxytocin and other hormones in both partners. Arousal results in increased heart rate, respiration, and metabolic rate. Blood vessels dilate, adrenaline surges through the body, hormone levels shoot way up, and in general your body goes into "overdrive". A good round of sex, preceeded by a proper bit of foreplay and making out before hand, can blast over 500 calories in a two hour period depending on intensity, and has an "afterburn" period (the recovery of your muscles, during which more calories are used) that can last upwards of an hour or more. Not to mention it can be a full cardiovascular experience (again, this is assuming you do more than stick it in and pump around like a horny pogo stick)

    It isn't that you are transferring energy... you are quite literally giving each other a full bore cardiovascular workout and setting the body into "burn" mode.
     
  15. madethesame Banned Banned

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    no i am not refering to it. i dont care what science is written.
    it was practised by all ancient kings, this will help you to see my point of having uncircumcised penis.
    do one thing forget all the science you have learnt, just for reading these pages. keep on reading till end.
    this book is not focusing on pleasures but orgasm. you have to try the techniques yourself to know.

    their
    time limit defined by doctors is wrong. they wont accept until they see the effects. the day they see effects they will take u-turn on their stance on satisfactory sex.
    doctors think that ejacuation in men, is normal phenomena after recreational sex but ejacuating fequently is unhealthy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2014
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    And here we come to the crux of the issue... you don't care about science, you don't care about fact; you care about something mystical and supernatural. That's fine - if you believe in it, that's great; don't try to force it on others.

    So was Opium and Cocaine... that doesn't mean we should all start doing those.

    Already did read it all - it is mumbo jumbo with no credible basis in fact. And I rather like my science thank you - it's what has provided the medications and procedures that keep me healthy and have allowed me to overcome some of the inadequacies of my body (such as acid reflux)

    My wife and I are quite capable of reaching orgasm, including knowing how to prolong and delay when it happens so that we can keep going if we choose. We know each others little triggers and delight in teasing each other with them. In general, I try my best to ensure she is satisfied (which can mean she has several orgasms sometimes) before I let myself go - after all, women can experience multiple orgasms far more easily than men (who tend to be one shot wonders, though that isn't always the case).

    1) There is no "time limit" established by any credible doctors that I am aware of...
    2) ejaculation in men IS normal after sexual arousal - it's a part of the procreation process
    3) Regarding "ejaculating too much":

    Male ejaculate is rather high in zinc and other nutrients - in theory, you can, in fact, ejaculate away these nutrients if your diet is not sufficient enough to replenish them. You can also ejaculate "too often" in the sense that your body has not had time to replenish the ammo, so to speak - this has no real ill effect besides a somewhat 'unsatisfactory' experience; obviously, taking it to the extreme, if you masturbate/ejaculate several times an hour, you could quite possibly cause damage to the organ(s), but this is less from any effect of the act of ejaculation and more from the fact that you are going at it far too much and putting a lot of strain on your body to keep up.

    Ejaculation during sex is perfectly healthy and will not harm your body.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  17. madethesame Banned Banned

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    several orgasms are result of wrong sex. orgasm should be only one, deeper than fragment orgasms.
    what is orgasm according to you ?
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    According to what evidence/science/proof/study?

    The generally accepted definition is, from Merriam Webster:

    : intense or paroxysmal excitement; especially: an explosive discharge of neuromuscular tensions at the height of sexual arousal that is usually accompanied by the ejaculation of semen in the male and by vaginal contractions in the female
     
  19. madethesame Banned Banned

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    they confuse orgasm with pleasure. this pleasure is never satisfactory, so not a orgasm.
    frequent ejacuation of semen is unhealthy act, this is the reason you use physical power to sustain longer intercourse.
    i won't tell you what it is. I wont ruin your fun of searching orgasm , chances are that you already know. or ask your wife.
    i have experienced it without any external help.
     
  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    So you contend that the accepted definition is wrong?
     
  21. madethesame Banned Banned

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    yes.
     
  22. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds like you have a paper to write and get peer-reviewed then.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    I do think it is a cultural thing and one based on how the penis looks (religious reasons aside of course).

    I've heard of men in the US having their son's circumcised so that their penis look the same. I'm sorry, but I don't personally see that as a valid reason. It would be akin to having a baby girl's nipples 'done' to look like her mother's, for example, or plastic surgery to her vagina so that it matched her mother's. And in Australia, cosmetic circumcision of baby boys or male infants is banned in public hospitals and quite a few private hospitals as well.

    From a religious standpoint, there are inherent dangers in how that is performed in certain religious ceremonies.

    My sons have never had a UTI. Until their foreskin can be retracted naturally and without force, there is no reason to retract it. If you try to force it, it can actually damage a child's foreskin. In short, they do not have to retract it for years. If they wash normally, that is all that is needed.

    As for lowering the risk of cancer to the penis. Some claim that the foreskin can become cancerous, so they argue that removing it reduces the risk of that form of cancer. I am yet to see anyone argue that baby girls should have their ovaries removed and their cervix removed for a similar reason. You're not going to hear it because it would be an insane reason.

    But in the case of penile cancer and increasing the risk of cervical cancer in women if they have unprotected sex with an uncircumcised male, one of the factors in penile cancer is hygiene. And if you do not wash yourself properly and wash away the smegma, it can irritate the foreskin, which can lead to cancerous growth. Again, hygiene. Then you have issues which are medical where the foreskin cannot retract properly and becomes inflamed and also injuries to the skin or soft tissue around the penis can increase the risk of penile cancer.

    As for cervical cancer, the washing can increase the risk of HPV.

    My ex-husband is not here, obviously. But yes, it comes down a lot to hygiene. Once the boy is old enough and able to retract his foreskin easily, then he can be taught to wash it with water.. Before then, just washing externally is all that is needed and trying to retract the foreskin too soon can actually cause permanent damage and inflammation.
    But penile cancer is very rare in developed countries. But in 3rd world countries, the rate is higher. It's still rare, but it is higher than in developed countries. And also, because of the lack of protection while having sex, especially in 3rd world countries, circumcision is also touted as being helpful in preventing the spread of HIV - as it reduces the chance of contracting it from unsafe sexual practices according to some studies conducted in some countries in Africa... And this is where the waters become even murkier..

    It's become a big deal because of some studies that were conducted about 10 years or so ago, which ended up recommending that males in some African countries be circumcised to reduce the spread of HIV.

    In countries where access to water to wash, in developing countries for example, where being able to clean one's genitals properly may not be possible, male circumcision is touted as being necessary and encouraged to prevent a multitude of problems.

    The studies that were conducted were themselves flawed and exceptionally unethical and frankly, endangered men and women alike. There was an article written in 2011, which discussed the African HIV studies and the claims that circumcision reduced HIV spread and it goes through and details every flaw in the studies themselves and it is an astounding read: http://www.salem-news.com/fms/pdf/2011-12_JLM-Boyle-Hill.pdf
     

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