Iraq Falls Apart

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Yazata, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    5,902
    Yesterday, June 10 2014, Islamist militants from al-Qaida spin-off ISIL (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) entered into Mosul, Iraq's third largest city, and the Iraqi army simply fled.

    Today, June 11, ISIL is consolidating their hold on Mosul and reportedly have seized the Turkish consulate there, capturing its diplomats and military guards. ISIL holds Mosul's international airport and have taken over a number of Iraqi military bases, containing abundant small arms, explosives, aircraft and armor (much of it American made).

    When word came today that ISIL militants were gathering outside Kirkuk, a major oil refining city on the edge of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region, the Iraqi army again turned tail and fled. In this case, Kurdish forces quickly entered Kirkuk and took over the Iraqi positions and appropriated the weapons they left behind, apparently intending to defend the city against ISIL. (The Kurds have always wanted the city and it was a major item of contention between them and the Arabs, so they probably don't intend to hand it back.)

    Word came today that ISIL has entered and taken control of Tikrit, a smaller provincial capital and Saddam Hussein's home town, about 100 miles north of Baghdad.

    Reports are coming in that ISIL has shown up outside what is described as Iraq's largest oil refinery at Basiji. At last word, they haven't seized it yet.

    Besides the treasure-trove of military equipment, they have also seized upwards of $400 million in cash estimated to have been in Mosul banks.

    And the United Nations are reporting that some 500,000 local civilians have fled Mosul to escape ISIL (about 1/3 of the city's population apparently) creating a sudden and growing humanitarian disaster.

    So, in a space of merely two days ISIL, the former al-Quaida in Iraq, has seized control of pretty much all of the Sunni Arab areas north of Baghdad (historical Assyria).

    They've certainly hit the jackpot.

    President al-Maliki and his Shi'ite-dominated Iraqi government are talking defiant and tough, but if the Iraqi military won't fight for him, it's hard to see how the national government can effectively respond to this.

    And predictably Shi'ite leaders are talking tough too, apparently bringing their own armed militias (like the Mahdi Army) that were supposedly disbanded years ago back out into the light.

    Turkey is warning ISIL not to hurt its captured diplomats, but it isn't clear if Turkey wants to intervene militarily. Iran is obviously watching events with interest as well.

    And there's Washington DC... This is certainly a nice new steaming piece of unexpected and unwanted foreign shit on Barack Obama's Oval Office plate. The US will almost certainly talk a tough game, but I don't see Obama sending US troops back in.

    This is shaping up to be a major crisis, getting very ugly, very fast.
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Cool, we get to invade Iraq again!
     
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  5. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Hurry, let's all get rid of our guns in the US so we're safer!

    Wait, where will we run to, Canada? Mexico?

    Maybe we better keep our guns and stand our ground!

    ...and like the old saying goes about not having to be able to outrun the bear, just having to outrun the person you're with...Since Australia already got rid of their guns, we just outran them...

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  7. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    Do you know that the earlier Iraq War (1990) was abbreviated (as compared to the later American involvement) because it was realized that the various factions were bound to spin out of control, and a many-sided chaotic civil war was just waiting to happen. America didn't need to get mired down in all that! In fact, someone wrote a great big book about it, and advised America to steer clear. That someone was George Walker Bush. So you'd think his son would have listened to his dad, and not get involved again, but no. The rest, as they say, is history.
     
  8. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    So just ignore the rest of the world and the problems will go away? Close our eyes so nobody can see us?
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    In my opinion, not helping existing rebels overthrow Saddam in the Gulf War was a mistake. We didn't have to invade, just enforce a no-fly zone like we promised to do.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    No, but it doesn't mean you have to invade and occupy the rest of the word either and in the process take on trillions in debt, not to mention the loss of innocent lives.
     
  11. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Debt?

    So being proactive in the world in order to better defend our national interests is too costly, but Obama care is a bargain?
     
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    (wild guess)
    if al-Qaida gains too much in iraq, quds force will most likely get more involved
    They have previously stepped in to support the Kurds

    ...........
    we armed the free syrian army, who then split with 1/2 joining al-Qaida and taking our weapons with them.
    ...........
    I hope we stay the hell out of it and watch it unfold.

    .........................
    The new world order is "DEBT" we spend money we don't have on silly meaningless little wars so that we may put our country in debt so that we cannot disengage from the new world order.
    Credit card wars are quicksand.
     
  13. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Have you ever played the game Risk? You know how if you leave your borders too thin they get toppled quickly? Then the enemy gains power and moves to the next, and gains more power...

    So, let them gain power is what you recommend?
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    yes

    ...........
    too short
    We only seem to have power when the full weight of the awesome military might of the U.S. war machine is active.

    That "power" is an illusion which dissipates like a fart in the wind as soon as we withdraw that war machine.
    Real power comes from situational awareness, which our department of state has consistently failed to understand.
    After spending trillions of dollars of credit card debt in our invasion of Iraq, Qasem Soleimani outsmarted us and had more influence in Iraq with a much smaller force.

    ................
    alternately
    It was claimed that the reason Bush invaded iraq was because Saddam had tried to start trading oil in euros. The reasoning was that as long as oil trades in dollarsU.S., the world will need to hold dollars in reserve, which keeps the dollar strong, and makes our tanked economy seem sustainable.

    Our leaders are dancing to a tune which we cannot afford. When the piper is paid, we will all suffer.

    .......................
    Long ago, I was being followed by a trailer which was wandering from side to side. By accelerating, I was able to straighten it out--------for awhile. Then it would swing from to side to side again, pulling the back of the car along with it. Heading down the interstate on a long decline, we were approaching 90mph with the back end of the car moving from side to side-----------So I slammed on the brakes and brought that circus ride to a skidding sideways halt.

    As a country, we need to slam on the brakes and back off the gas for awhile until we understand where to intervene.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, yeah debt? How do you think Georgie Junior paid for his military adventures? You so called "conservatives" are funny. It's always either or and you never have your facts straight. What you are offering as a defense, is a false choice. What national interest was Georgie defending exactly when he invaded Iraq?

    And Obamacare is a bargain because it does contain healthcare costs and saves the government hundreds of billions of dollars according to the non partisan Congressional Budget Office. Yeah that is certainly better than trillions of war debt.
     
  16. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Good thing our top military advisers to the President don't think like you!! 9-11 was evidence that being reactive sucks. Proactive is way better!
     
  17. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    Who appointed us Policeman of the World? That whole concept is getting very expensive, dangerous and outdated. Remember, although, you're probably too young, that George Washington in his departing address advised America to stay out of foreign affairs.
     
  18. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    Again, we are looking out for our own interests. What happens in the world affects us. We can not stand by and wait until the rest of the world is overrun with terrorists, and then decide to take action. Too late! Do you get that?

    Would you rather clean up another tower, or go to another country and take care of the problem before it gets out of hand and reaches our borders?
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah what happens in the world does affect us and we should never become issolationists. But that doesn't mean we should or need to be George Bush stupid.
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I edited post 11
     
  21. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    You're a great Monday morning quarterback, Joe. Tell me, since it's only Wednesday, how is this one gonna play out? What should we do, nothing?
     
  22. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    1,353
    Hmm. Don't know that I want to restart the whole America as isolationist, rogue state or World Cop discussion again. It's been done. I am not sure what we should do. Ideally America would mind its own business, and save ourselves a lot of time, trouble and money, and it just might be that the world would rejoice if we did so. What are our interests really? Aren't they just Mobil Exxon and Lockheed Martin's interests?
     
  23. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    So let me get this straight. You were pulling a trailer and it was swaying side to side. So you then went 90 MPH and after that mishap you had the idea to suddenly slam on the brakes?

    Wow!
     

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