"Crazy" might not be the right term to use in this discussion, but I basically agree with the rest. ---FutilitistPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I did that already. See my post #171 entitled "Forgiveness?". ---FutilitistPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Are you familiar with the Miller and Trevena results? There is ample reason to believe that the Libet results had little to do with choice. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17835-free-will-is-not-an-illusion-after-all.html (emphasis added) A more direct test of the relationship between the readiness potential and the "awareness of the intention to move" was conducted by Banks and Isham (2009). In their study, participants performed a variant of the Libet's paradigm in which a delayed tone followed the button press. Subsequently, research participants reported the time of their intention to act (e.g., Libet's "W"). If W were time-locked to the readiness potential, W would remain uninfluenced by any post-action information. However, findings from this study show that W in fact shift systematically with the time of the tone presentation, implicating that W is, at least in part, retrospectively reconstructed rather than pre-determined by the readiness potential. -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will#Investigating_Libet.27s_findings Of course anyone seeking an excuse for a lack of personal responsibility would find Libet's results comforting. A "fall guy" is just as likely to be blamed for the action of an individual, just as someone attempting to frame another for murder. This argument seems to be based solely on the incredulity of someone who, a priori, does not believe in personal responsibility. That is not a substantial argument. Never had the need, since I believe that my circumstances are largely the result of the actions I am responsible for. Belief has a lot to do with behavior, so a disbelief in personal responsibility has an observable effect on moral choices. http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2008/04/22/changing-belief-in-free-will-c/ http://www.psychologicalscience.org...human/a-sobering-message-about-free-will.html
Then perhaps you should have left Futilitist's post as the last word, which I was intending to do myself before you posted again.
Drama Triangle I will step back in here to point out that what the readers have just witnessed is a classic drama triangle. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle Hopefully this is the last word on just this side topic, but not the last word on the original topic which is Asperger's syndrome. ---FutilitistPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Nice reference. You will note that the persecutor is the only consistent participant. The situation plays out when a situation arises and a person takes a role as victim or persecutor. Others then take the other roles. Thereafter 'the two players move around the triangle, thus switching roles', so that for example the victim turns on the rescuer, the rescuer switches to persecuting -- or as often happens the rescuer ends up entering the situation and becoming a victim. ... The relationship between the victim and the rescuer can be one of codependency. The Rescuer keeps the Victim dependent on them by playing into their Victimhood. The Victim gets their needs met by having the rescuer take care of them. -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle Actually, looking up your bolded quote: ... the Victim is not really as helpless as he feels, the Rescuer is not really helping, and the Persecutor does not really have a valid complaint. -http://www.claudesteiner.com/hea1.htm It turns out that this example only accounts for two people swapping among the three roles.
Awesome! And now back to our regularly scheduled Asperger's thread, already in progress. ---FutilitistPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
