Syria: The "Rebels" Are Terrorists

Discussion in 'Politics' started by RedStar, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, I'm becoming convinced that the situation is that he is basically a Russian chauvinist, and has latched onto this whole throwback ideology as part of that. It harkens back to a time when Russia was a major pole of world power, with an expansive ideology that commanded serious consideration the world over. The collapse of the USSR being the worst catastrophy to befall Russia's standing, prosperity and prestige in living memory, it makes sense to pound one's fist on the table for the righteousness of that former glory.

    Anyway, that explains both his superficial, overzealous, anachronistic advocacy of Soviet Communism, and also his embrace of the Putin party line on Syria here. Likewise, I'm given to believe that this sort of identification has become something of a thing in Russia recently, especially amongst the younger set for whom it is all an abstraction to begin with.
     
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  3. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    Do you want me to go back and quote all the numerous times I said let's learn from the history of socialist movements rather than dismiss them altogether? That's been my point this whole time: stop dismissing them altogether and look at the successes. That's been precisely my response as it was you, not me, who dismissed entirely and totally the movements of, say, Cuba or the Soviet Union. I've been the one saying "let's learn from the history", and you've been the one making broad black-and-white characterizations. Can you please be even a little bit honest? As for "my kind of communist", I'm a Marxist-Leninist and, admittedly, that's not the most popular school of thought nowadays.

    Tiassa, what is it specifically that leads you to think I'm just an "obscure joke"?

    Fair point, but not this movement. Now now, after it has exposed itself to be supported by Saudi Arabia and Islamic fundamentalists. Not this particular movement, a largely religious and not secular struggle. The Alawites of Syria have long been oppressed, brutalized, and murdered by the majority Sunnis. I don't trust this movement.

    I doubt they have moved past the days of imperialism, considering recent history.

    My conception of liberty doesn't include the liberty for religious extremists to murder minorities, comrade.

    The futility is in supporting the "rebels". Various people on the international stage have already recognized the movement as the foreign-backed sham it is.

    No, I have never characterized entire nations and periods of history in one fashion unless as a response to your doing so.

    How free and legitimate are American elections?

    Please quote me where I displayed Russian chauvinism.


    Except they don't. Syria has had one of the lowest crime rates in the world, and has been one of the safest countries in the Middle East for ages now.

    So why did the United States support Saddam Hussein and Fulgencio Batista?

    What gives you the moral high ground to criticize them? At least they're supporting someone in their own country.

    You mean, the same way the US backing foreign regimes does the same thing?
    And whence cometh these "rights" you speak of? More idealism on your part.

    I disagree. A dictatorship of the working class is not bad. Dictatorship means control of power.

    I see. Seems to me like you think so because you are an American and are displaying a chauvinistic attitude here.


    I meant socially and culturally.


    I trust Russia a hell of a lot more any day of the week.

    Ditto for you when carried out by parties under the control of the USA, from what I've gathered.

    I will, any day of the week. As you'll recall, I never said Assad was pure or innocent; only, that he was a better choice than the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia Law.

    As I said above, I will. At least I can trust the intentions of nations like Switzerland more, who don't have a history of corruption and hypocrisy.

    The Alawites have been murdered and massacred for years. Before Hafez Al-Assad, it was they who lived in fear.

    I never advocated Soviet socialism. Rather, I point out its successes. And why shouldn't I? Why shouldn't I? I can point out its successes without saying "Hey, let's return to an exact copy of Stalin's Russia".
     
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  5. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Thing is no one in the West cares about the other country's democratic movements, what they do care about is control of resources. Assad is in their way, so they created a rebel group to fight the evil tyranist scheme of removing him. The latest CNN I saw, described the attack on the Domascus governing house as a "massacre" and never mentioned a word "terrorism". Clearly the USA as well as most of U.N pro-West leaders dont give a **** about the country, they just want to have the same thing that was masterminded in Libya and Egypt to occur in Syria. I pray that Assad can resist their attempts, as the geopolitical forces will greatly shift if he falls.
     
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  7. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    A group of people funded from outside the country are attacking the governing body of that country, as well as the forces of that country. They blowup makeshift bombs inside the government house, killing as many people inside and their main target. How is that not terrorism? What if it wasn't Domascus, what if this was D.C.? Who will be wining than?
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's a civil war, you get resources from wherever you can. I seem to recall the Union and the Confederate armies getting aid from foreign sources too. The point is it's a government house. That's the leadership the Syrian rebels want to overthrow. It's not terrorism, it's fair game.
     
  9. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    Then it's fair game when a bunch of neocon KKK members try to take on Obama, right?

    Or do you just like to invent standards as you go along? And whatever happened to not using force?
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't say it was legal, and people who do or plan such things shouldn't be arrested, only that it's not terrorism. I'm sure the Syrian rebellion is illegal according to Syrian law, but fuck Assad.
     
  11. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    Well, I'd agree, but I think "fuck the CIA and the US business interests" and "fuck radical Islam" more, so I'll have to side with Assad.

    And those KKK members think "Fuck Obama"
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure you will continue to be on the wrong side of history.

    Also goddamn you are fast at posting.
     
  13. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not on the side of the US war machine. I'm not on the side of the people who brutalized the Third world. I'm not on the side of the people who let a billion people starve to death throughout the world because the market determined that they didn't deserve to live.

    I can't tell if you are trolling or serious when you defend imperialism.

    Not to mention the audacity of your post, that you have the authority to determine the "right" side of history.

    I mean, do you realize how chauvinistic and even Nazi-ish some of your posts defending imperialism and "might makes right" are?
     
  14. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Did you ever write for the English version of Pravda?
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think might makes right, but if I think I'm right, I'm glad if I also have might on my side. I'm not necessarily thrilled by every aspect of US actions either in the past or present, but my purpose is to challenge what you think you know.
     
  16. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    My purpose is to challenge what you think you know. I don't think the US has been the good guy in world affairs (I am working on making a thread called "A History of American Imperialism" to discuss that, for now I'll get back to this topic)
     
  17. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Did you ever write for comics section in New York Times?
     
  18. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    Did you ever ask a relevant question?
     
  19. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    If that's so, you should probably start by figuring out what people here do and do not know.

    And not simply trying to tell them what they know. Your ceaseless strawman attacks are getting old really fast.
     
  20. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    We live in a state of terror. No more, gentlemen. Competence of government, now! Our government leaves us all in the sight of terrorist. These people need to be taken care of.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    Then you are not a communist.
     
  22. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    Seems that with Syria no matter what happens the citizens are still not going to be much better off than they were before this uprising started when all is said and done. One side kills to maintain control and the other side kills to gain control to perhaps again kill citizens that don't do as the new regime wants. So while we bicker about who is right or wrong thousands die in order to be controled by the same means that is being administered today only it might be worse, if that's possible.

    My heart goes out to those citizens there who are caught up in this turmoil and don't want to be killed just because they happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
     
  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    It's a bit soon to tell, no?

    Okay...

    It seems premature to conclude that the rebels will turn into dictators if they sieze control. That isn't what they claim to want to do, and it isn't what happened in the other Arab Spring uprisings.

    Again, seems like undue, premature pessimism.

    One outcome that people here seem to be discounting is the break-up of Syria into smaller confessional states. The Alawites get a small state over in the West, likely still with the Baath/Assad as leaders, and the Sunnis get the rest. Not sure where that leave the Christians. Anyway, that was how these various groups were politically organized before the formation of modern Syria, so it's not a crazy possibility. It also addresses many of the concerns about the fates of minorities in the aftermath. And it is similar to how other countries in the region address communal tensions - see Lebanon and Iraq. It also addresses the basic impetus for rebellion, which is that the Sunni majority is being repressed by the Alawite minority.
     

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