The vicious circle of religion.

Sorry I was assuming the standard definition of God in the broadest sense. Anyway given that humans lie a lot to influence others, why should I believe in made up bullshit? If there was an all powerful God that wanted me to know that he existed and that I should live by his rules, all he has to do is ask. Damn, I've never been asked.

 

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I don't understand the last part " Damn, I've never been asked."

 

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and its precisely because no one can provide a working model for life in the language of dna matter and quarks that abiogenesis remains a theoretical concept.
:shrug:

 

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Then why talk about what is excluded in the creation of the universe

yet you just let rip with statements tot he contrary ...

When a star creates heavy elements that doesn't require a God

however our universe was created was also natural and didn't require a God

etc etc

I didn't present it as a means for you to believe in god

I presented it as means to point out how you are over-stepping the credibility of the knowledge base of science

as maintainer, sustainer and ultimately destroyer

wrong on all counts

I don't see what my personal approach to religion has to do with the manner you incorrectly borrow from the credibility of science to inflate your arguments

 

I liked this because it reminded me of Thomas Paine:

I also like the remark about heavy elements being created in stars, since creationists seem to not be aware of this, at least it never seems to come up in the fundamentalist attacks on science.

 

Perhaps you are not familiar , many pf are familiar , so don't overestimate your knowledge. because you can get embarrassed

 

There is no before the big bang. Time and space both were created from a singularity at that instant. There was no time before big bang just like there was no U before ur birth [n pls dont go into my soul was eternal, etc, I mean u, not ur soul, if it even exists].

 

The earlier you go down the timeline of the Big bang, the less likely you will find a scientific consensus on it ... what to speak of issues before it

 

It means he would accept the existence of god, all he needs is god to give him some conclusive evidence. It like if there were a god and he is confronted by him in the afterlife;
God - Why did u not believe in me?
KillJoyKlown - U didn't provide enough evidence.

 

Well its a field in constant flux. We just dont know enough and the theories have to be modified to incorporate new evidence. That why there is no evidence. Indeed I wonder if big bang cosmology will be resolved in this century at all.

 

so its not an effective point to offer leverage for arguments for/against evolution etc

 

Of course not. Abiogenesis is only slightly less worse off. Anyway, what do either have to do with evolution? Evolution only explains and describes changes in living, replicating populations. It doesnt have anything to do with the origin of life or of the universe.

 

You think it is reasonable to "safely bet" on something that you won't live to see??

 

When someone says God talks to them, you are sure that they are crazy or liars:

You don't think that considering someone to be "crazy" or a "liar" is a serious matter?

The fact that we still don't know everything can be taken to mean that we must apply high epistemological and ethical standards to our pursuit of knowledge and how we communicate with others in this regard.

 

Why not?

 

Oh dear.
So do tell - who will collect or pay out your bet, in 500 years?

 

they are both "worse off" since they are theoretical ideas only, plain and simple.

You're the one who brought in the topic of the origins of the big bang as effectively ruling out a god
:shrug:

 

When [not if] early universe theories and fully made, god indeed will be ruled out. Till then, I am open to deism and panenthesim.

 

Why bother with being now "open to deism and panenthesim,"
if you are already sure that "When [not if] early universe theories and fully made, god indeed will be ruled out"?

That's like saying "I'll get drunk, until I am sober."

:bugeye:

 

what do they call in science an over-bearing determination to fix information to a conclusion?

Type 1 errors ?