James O'Keefe and the Conservative Ethos

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910

    I always find it humorous when they break out the old victim card as a defense against a bit of honesty.

    The size and scope of the dishonesty is just beyond words. Every time I turn on cable news and a Republican/Tea Bagger is speaking, I desperately search for a grain of truth and am thrilled if I should find it. I open my email, and it is full of crap like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?

    Ain't even close to being true. The referenced page numbers have nothing to do with the claims made by the Tea Baggers pushing this crap and their industry backers in the You Tube piece.

    http://www.healthcare.gov/law/index.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
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  3. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    He's not dishonest. He's insane. He believes that if he can control the narrative sufficiently, then reality literally does not matter.

    Of course, it's simple to see how this makes a certain politicized sense, and so the partisan system ends up incentivizing such a mindset. But it is literally crazy in that it rejects the constraints of reality. This Roveian rejection of the "reality-based community" is the expected result of "conservatism" having embraced radical ideological politics.

    Meanwhile, one wonders where the actual conservatives are. And then recalls that the word for them is "blue dogs." If those guys aren't far enough right for one, I'd submit that such pretty clearly defines one as a radical.
     
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  5. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Conservatism involves conservation of knowledge. Knowledge within the zealous practice of conservatism is rationed and hoarded, mostly out of fear or greed or hunger for power over others. An example of it comes to mind. The ancient Jewish priests were to keep the scrolls from the people as a means of control and prolonging the system, and their own power.
     
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  7. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Bull

    He's not a DA and he couldn't bring criminal charges.

    What he did show is that ACORN employees across the country were willing to discuss with O’Keefe and Giles their plan to conduct a prostitution business, and a few even made suggestions for disguising profits and avoiding detection by law enforcement agencies.

    FACT

    To now say his allegations were false is laughable.
     
  8. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Really?

    You think I'm the one trying to control the narrative?

    What a laugh.

    What part of this don't you understand?

    The recordings establish ACORN employees across the country were willing to discuss with O’Keefe and Giles their plan to conduct a prostitution business, and a few even made suggestions for disguising profits and avoiding detection by law enforcement agencies.

    Which is (one of the many reasons) why there is no more ACORN.

    Arthur
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Keep selling that snake oil ....

    Beside the point.

    O'Keefe said he was working on a nationwide ACORN child prostitution investigation.

    So, what have the local District Attorneys charged the ACORN employees with?
     
  10. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter what he said we was working on, what matters is what he presented and when the story broke it wasn't about child prostitution but about ACORN employees discussing with O’Keefe and Giles their plan to conduct a prostitution business, and they provided videos of some of the ACORN employees making suggestions for disguising profits and avoiding detection by law enforcement agencies.

    Nothing, as the way the evidence was gathered would not be admissable in court, and because ACORN imploded when this was revealed.

    But the net is that the allegations that were made were not false as you claimed they were.

    Indeed:

    The recordings establish ACORN employees across the country were willing to discuss with O’Keefe and Giles their plan to conduct a prostitution business, and a few even made suggestions for disguising profits and avoiding detection by law enforcement agencies.
     
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the only thing laughable is that you actually believe that. first off playing along is a very good tactic to gain more information to give to the police. there is zero evidence that ACORN even took this joke of a human being seriously
     
  12. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    no the reason there is no more ACORN is people like you can't stand people actually being helped so you supported this piece of garbage Okeefe and destroyed with your blind hatred an organization that wasn't criminal and had only done good.
     
  13. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    No, that quote is from the report from the California DA

     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  14. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't do anything to support OKeefe.
    Indeed it was all over and done with before I ever even heard about it.

    But from what I've read, ACORN was primarily responsible for doing in ACORN, Okeefe just shined the light on them, but had there not been a basis for the allegations, they would have survived.

    Arthur
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Cheer up; your efforts aren't a total loss

    It's easy to claim success when you move the end line to wherever you decide it needs to be in order to claim success.

    Thank you for that demonstration of the conservative ethos.

    As Joe noted, it seems reality need not apply for any station in your narrative.

    The DAs didn't charge ACORN because there was nothing to charge them with.

    Remember, sir, the next time you choose to bawl about how, "just because we don't see eye to eye", that it's not actually about the fact that we have a difference of opinion. There is a reason that James O'Keefe is on the outs with his former supporters, that he finds himself turning to cult figures and known sleazemongers. The conservative ethos was never about truth and integrity, but, rather, success. He's on the outs because he is a failure.

    Your determination to defend him and argue for a revision of history in order to avoid looking at the broader implications of his longer story, while it is, indeed, sleazy, stupid, and expected, does have the benefit of letting people see the conservative ethos in motion.

    So your efforts aren't completely futile.
     
  16. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    And my issue wasn't about O'Keefe's success or lack of it or if he is on the out with whomever.
    I could care less.

    My issue was simply that your assertion that the allegations against ACORN were false.

    As the California DA's report states, they weren't:

    I know you don't want to admit you were wrong, but that's your problem, not mine.

    Arthur
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Your swindle has already failed

    I know you don't want to admit you're trying to change history, Arthur, but that's your problem, not mine.

    Certainly, you're welcome to insist that reality is subordinate to your authority, but that's not how it works. There are a lot of posts about the ACORN scandal in the archive, and you're welcome to go review them, but your attempt to distract this topic by trying to revise history has pretty much failed.

    Indeed, the only upside to your performance here is that it reinforces the sinister neuroses of the conservative ethos.

    You know, kind of like Clint Didier and Christine O'Donnell, who similarly moved the goalposts. Sure, they didn't get the most votes, but afterward they tried to tell us that they won.

    In other words, Arthur, your swindle has already failed for fellow conservatives. That you need to try it again only reiterates, for all to see, the toxic conservative ethos in motion.
     
  18. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Noteably, there's a fitting name for that particular fallacy:

    The Texas Sharpshooter
     
  19. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Well you've got that 180 degrees out of wack.

    If you were right, ACORN would still be around.

    It's not.
     
  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Right, because Congress is totally not politicizied, and totally ignores media-amplified partisan narratives in favor of perfectly credible and rational considerations of fact and legalism. Which is why, of course, there is no incentive whatsoever for, say, Adoucette to traffic energetically in narrative over substance. Indeed, nothing to see here except a bunch of wild-eyed hard-left conspiracy theorists rejecting unambiguous questions of fact.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    This and That

    Now there is some logic ....

    • • •​

    We must also acknowledge the possibility that it isn't a swindle Arthur is trying. After all, it's entirely possible he actually, genuinely believes the buffalo pies he's serving up are anything more than the proverbial SOS.
     
  22. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    According to WIKI

    On March 19, 2010, The New York Times reported that ACORN was on the verge of filing for bankruptcy; 15 of the group's 30 state chapters had disbanded over the past six months, and other chapters (including the largest, in New York and California) renamed themselves and severed all ties to the national organization.[10] Two unnamed ACORN officials told the Times that the following weekend, a teleconference was planned to discuss a bankruptcy filing; "private donations from foundations to Acorn [had] all but evaporated,"

    And

    The appeals court cited a study finding that only 10% of ACORN's funding came from federal sources,

    So yes the Govt's lack of funding hurt, but it was the private donations that stopped that killed it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now
     
  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    9,391
    Right, and since the behavior of charitable donors, unlike Congress, is totally not politicizied, and totally ignores media-amplified partisan narratives in favor of perfectly credible and rational considerations of fact and legalism, this adds up to a meaningful rebuttal. Which is why, of course, there is no incentive whatsoever for, say, Adoucette to traffic energetically in narrative over substance. Indeed, nothing to see here except a bunch of wild-eyed hard-left conspiracy theorists rejecting unambiguous questions of fact.
     

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