'No evidence' for extraterrestrials, says White House,....

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by phlogistician, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    The U.2 reconnaissance missions over the poles caused much top secret information because of the sensitivity of the spy operations. The rumors abound because of it . The ground controls were not even aware of the mission purpose. They would be told one thing while another was being done . Spy business is like that . If there is a leak it is disinformation and the cover becomes better .

    The U.2 was top secret . High flying alternates unheard of in the day and not admitted to because of the sensitivity of the missions . Course we found out about it soon enough . What rumors still bounce around from the covert actions in the beginnings? The cover up
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, so where is the evidence? There isn't any and that is the point.

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    Great, but that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about those events that cannot be explained by swamp gas or altered mental states.
    You see, now here is crux of the problem. You have two sides here. One the pro alien crowd and the anti alien crowd move along here, nothing to see crowd. And each is just as bad as the other in my book. To believe the alien visitation crowd you have to believe facts not in evidence. To believe the anti-alien crowd you have to ignore facts in evidence.

    I am in neither camp. There is a phenomena that we cannot explain. And until we have credible evidence it should be recognized as an enigma and studied until it can be explained with reason and evidence.

    If some of these events are from altered mental states you would think that governments should be interested. Because some of those people supposedly in "altered mental states" carry guns and are guarding nuclear arms depots others are flying large passenger airliners and still others are policemen. So regardless of what was actually observed, given the responsibility entrusted with these folks, their observations should be taken seriously instead of ignored. I certianly don't want military folks with nuclear weapons walking around in altered mental states while on duty. Nor do I want on duty policemen or aircraft pilots including astronauts on duty in altered mental states.
     
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  5. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I'm still miffed about having to be alien spawn.
     
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  7. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @Joe --

    Well perhaps you could cite some of these accounts that can't be explained. I'd be willing to bet money that I'll have no trouble finding an explanation for you.
     
  8. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    They give you an explanation but is it right!:shrug:
     
  9. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @Rob --

    Well I am a bio major with a minor in journalism, I think that I know how to check my sources.
     
  10. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Well I remember the Kaikoura Incident and they have never explained that scientifically. Have you looked into that incident? Probably 30 years ago but still documented on the internet.

    Tell me what you think of that one?
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    As previously mentioned, read Project Blue Book. The United States government with all of its resources and hell bent intent to discredit the UFO phenomena could not explain them, I am sure you can.
     
  12. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    This one:

    http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/11668/The_Kaikoura_Lights__New_Zealand_UFO_Footage__1978/

    The usual blurry footage and camera shake, making the whole film useless? The loop shown was because of camera shake, the shape shown because it was out of focus,.. schoolboy camera stuff, really.

    Do you have any links to more compelling footage?
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    If there was anything interesting going on, why was Blue Book abandoned?
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    A good question, what did Dr. J. Allen Hynek have to say about that? He was the chief scientist behind Project Blue Book.
     
  15. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Weeellll...admittedly Hynek did kind of convert, there.

    Actually, weird story to relate here: I'm at a conference a few weeks back, right? Anyway, I does my bit, give my presentation, all that, and then at the end lots of groupies crowd around. So one of them is an older prof, MD/PhD from Northern Cali and he tells me that his brother-in-law was an actual rocket scientist who then got but on one of these UFO projects. So I'm kind of a buff, I ask him "Project Sign? Grudge? Blue Book?" and he doesn't know, but it's one of those, and apparently his brother-in-law tells him flat out one day "You know, UFOs are real."

    Strange encounter. Didn't seem crazy, at least. Very odd.
     
  16. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @joe --

    Damn. I didn't even need to do any work with that one. Got any others that "can't" be explained, or are you just pinning your hopes on the shotgun approach, saying "oh they're out there, just look" and hoping that someone more capable will find your evidence for you?
     
  17. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    No but the Ohakea airbase picked up the UFO signal and we saw the footage and reports on TV I think it was the day after. The journalist went on the plane because of the repetitive nature of the UFO sightings.
    There has been no real satisfactory explanation for it, in the opinion of thousands of NZ'ders.
     
  18. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @Rob --

    So they picked something up on radar? What a shock! Call the Whitehouse immediately!

    I kid of course, this means nothing. Unidentified objects are picked up on radar all the time, from weather balloons to flocks of birds(yeah, the can register as one object on radar), aliens aren't needed to explain that. Ockham's razor slices your argument to ribbons.

    As for the footage, it's worthless. Such poor quality footage could be showing a bear break dancing for all we know. It could just be lens flare or insects flying around right in front of the camera, again there's absolutely no need to assume "aliens" for this.
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, correction, you chickened out. What's the matter? Are you afraid to do a little reading? Are you chicken? Are you afraid of a little book or are you afraid of what you might learn? Like I said before, if the US government with mega resouces and an expressed intent to discredit UFO's cannot explain them, what makes you think you can explain them? If you have the guts and intellectual honesty, why don't you pick up a copy of Project Blue Book and read it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  20. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @joe --

    Because I have much better things to do with my time than to read a bunch of UFO nonsense. I could pick up the latest Quarterly Review of Biology and read that, or maybe I could spend the time having drinks with some of my cosmologist friends(they're always fun when they're drunk, you don't even need to keep them away from the power tools like you do for engineers). Or I could spend the time gouging my eyes out with rusty nails, all I'm saying is that pretty much anything is a more productive use of my time than that.

    If you have any specifics you'd like to ask me about then go ahead, that won't take much time.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are chicken. I gave you a very specific and credible reference. And you refuse to put the time in to do the work. And yet somehow you think you are going to explain something that the US government with all of its resources and experts were not able to explain and not put any work into it? That my friend is at best arrogance, at worst lazy and intellectually dishonest.
     
  22. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    4,199
    I agree it might not be aliens, but all I know is that no satisfactory explanation for it. All the explanations you have given seem totally bizarre as well sorry.
     
  23. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @joe --

    What, "Blue Book"? Oh yeah that's specific. Thousands of claims, thousands of investigations(all done halfassed because we were in the middle of a cold war and the government had much better things to worry about). Not exactly what you're claiming here is it. I asked for specifics and you give me the whole damn book saying "it's somewhere in there". Pardon me for having a life and not wanting to waste my time when I'm already more than 99% sure of what I'll find.

    Like I said, there are infinitely more productive ways for me to spend my time. Hell, reading the Quarterly Review could grant me an insight into curing AIDS or cancer or some shit like that. All reading Blue Book will do is give me a headache and confirm my words.

    What resources and experts were put on this? Oh that's right, next to none because we were in the middle of the Cold War and we had other sinks to throw our money and time into that concerned themselves with staying ahead of the Soviets. Does it ever bother you that all of this "UFO" business started just after the Soviets launched Sputnik and picked up after the Apollo missions to the moon?

    And many times the government did find an explanation, just not one that they put into words(Blue Book was a rather lackluster project). They didn't "find" an explanation for the event because there wasn't an event at all, just people lying and making shit up. Humans have been doing this throughout our entire history. How is this any different from some little girl in Europe somewhere seeing an image of the Virgin Mary because she's desperate for attention? Oh that's right, it isn't any different.

    Oh, and many scientists have been over the Blue Book and found nothing in there that they couldn't explain(who knows, maybe they missed it). Carl Sagan was one of them, he even wrote a book on this very subject. Perhaps you should pick it up and give it a read, you might actually learn something.

    Lazy? Yes, most definitely. I could do the work but I'd rather spend my time doing other work that might actually be of benefit to humanity someday.

    Arrogant? No, not at all. Arrogance would require that my high opinion of myself is undeserved, and it is most certainly not that.

    Intellectually dishonest? Not a chance. Point out where I've been intellectually dishonest and I'll gladly admit it(links are preferable), but you won't find any instances where that's the case.
     

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