You know I wish you would look stuff up but since you won't I will for you. "Upstream of Cape Hatteras the meanders are constrained by the continental shelf and rarely exceed 55 km in amplitude. Once the Stream separates from the Coast at Cape Hatteras however, the fluctuations can grow to 400 km in amplitude. The average amplitude for Gulf Stream meanders is about 200 km and the average wavelength of a meander is 330 km. Like a wave progressing down a string, meanders propagate down the Stream at an average rate of 8 km/day. " http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...tfDoCA&usg=AFQjCNG-vpfpqlNB9eaNWsMPim6jG8XczA
No you look how wide it is between Florida and the Bahama Bank! That is where they will be placed where the velocity is greatest!
Proof of frigging what?:shrug: Specifically state what these tunnels are. The principle by which they operate. The means by which it is proposed they be put to work.
Specifically the Tunnels ARE " Underwater Suspension Tunnels". The principle in which they work is F1>F2. The means by which it is proposed they be put to work is: If placed in the gulfstream there are two phases of operation. Cooling and Non- Cooling phase. In cooling phase it upwells cooler water to the surface to regulate Sea Surface temps anywhere between 70 and 90 degrees to the nearest 1/10 of a degree while generating enormous amounts of hydroelectrical power from the Ke in the gulfstream current. In non-cooling phase just the warm water flows through it but it still generates the electrical power. They actually regulate climate.
The original GW problem involves transferring sequestered carbon from the ground to the air, and it's certainly not about heat distribution in the oceans. My point is that this "fix" would artificially involve — and disrupt — the thermal equilibrium in the oceans. I'm saying that, in our short-sightedness, this solution may likely become an even bigger problem sometime in the future. We used to think of the atmosphere as a limitless dumping ground, and this scheme would apply the same mentality to the oceans. It's all about systems and equilibriums ... and we continue to involve and disrupt both.
Just watched this video from Lockheed Martin whom has and is maturing & developing OTEC technology.They will have a 10MW pilot plant up and running in Hawaii in 2012-2013 with 100MW plants to follow.Looks promising. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/OTEC/ http://www.lockheedmartin.com/how/stories/otec_player.html
This idea with the "Underwater Suspension Tunnels" would work perfect combined with OTEC as they don't need to pump cold deep water up to do the condensing making OTEC much more efficient!
Nope: If we see it becoming a problem by doing to much cooling then we switch over to non-cooling stage and just let the warm surface water flow through the tunnel and still tap the kinetic energy flowing through it generating enormous amounts of electrical power. This still reduces GHGs and will restore the planets temperature to pre-industrial revolution temperatures. At least with the tunnels have control of what is happening. What we have now is run away warming with GHGs and there is no way we are going to stop burning fossil fuels! BTW when the cold water is mixed with warm water the same amount of heat is still there. It is like mixing one cup of 50 degree water with one cup of 90 degree water to get two cups of 70 degree water by volume.
1. But tapping the kinetic energy slows down the water, which disrupts the kinetic equilibrium of the ocean currents. When I say that it'll turn our oceans into stagnant cesspools, I know I'm exaggerating. 2. The cold water is brought to the surface to absorb the heat caused by global warming, and the ocean's temperature will increase. This changes the ocean's equilibrium. Has anyone studied this? I posit that true "renewable" resources must be alive. Other so-called "renewable" resources, like solar power, wind power, tidal power, OTEC, etc are not "renewable". All this "power" is actually doing something right now. Tapping into it is relatively insignificant when a few people do it on a small scale, but not when it's done on as grand a scale as to supposedly reduce global warming.
On point one: Correct it slows down a bit but then it speeds back up do to the wind causing deep western boundry currents to exist along with coriolis forces. The only way this would stop is if the Earth stopped spinning and I don't think that will happen in the next billion years or so. On point two: The ocean Temperature will not increase as I showed in the example above with the two cups of water having the same amount of heat will still exist. What will happen is, as the tunnels generate more electrical power this lowers GHGs from fossil fuels and the GHG blanket becomes thinner and this allows more radiative heat to escape to space even as the oceans become cooler (from the upwelling which causes less water vapor in the atmosphere) there is less atmosphere ( GHGs and water vapor) left to absorb the radiative heat and so it is emitted to space more efficiently thus cooling the planet more. Basically, they can restore the climate to pre-industrial temperatures if we want them to based on how much cooling we want to do with them.
Also on Coriolis forces from Wiki: Other terrestrial effects The Coriolis effect strongly affects the large-scale oceanic and atmospheric circulation, leading to the formation of robust features like jet streams and western boundary currents. Such features are in geostrophic balance, meaning that the Coriolis and pressure gradient forces balance each other. Coriolis acceleration is also responsible for the propagation of many types of waves in the ocean and atmosphere, including Rossby waves and Kelvin waves. It is also instrumental in the so-called Ekman dynamics in the ocean, and in the establishment of the large-scale ocean flow pattern called the Sverdrup balance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect#Meteorology
1. "[the water] speeds back up [due] to the wind" ... by extracting kinetic energy from the atmosphere -- again changing the equilibrium of a major ecological system. The problem is too much GHGs, not too much wind. 2. "the upwelling ... causes less water vapor in the atmosphere" -- again changing the equilibrium of a major ecological system. So, during the years in which the atmosphere is warmer (and drier, as you admit), what do people do in areas where these conditions cause drought and desertification? My major point is that all this so-called "free energy" is robbing Peter to pay Paul, and it's not actually making the original problem go away. The original problem is that humans took mind-numbing amounts of sequestered carbon from the ground and put it into the atmosphere. Like pouring spent motor oil down sewer drains, the extra carbon in the atmosphere is hazardous waste. If instead of extracting/using petroleum, humans directly tapped the energy in the wind or oceans, we'd still have some sort of ecological catastrophe on our hands, such as turning the oceans into hypoxic, stagnant, lifeless cesspools. Look how humans have disrupted river systems with hydroelectric power projects. These projects deforest areas with its reservoirs and artificial lakes, disrupt fish life cycles, and extract kinetic energy from the rivers. Or take, for example, the roadway networks of the world. Based on my estimates, all the roadways of the world (both paved and unpaved) have essentially deforested an area 1½ times the size of Texas. We complain about Brazilians currently chopping away at the Amazon forest, but look what the rest of the world did, little by little, here and there, over the course of hundreds of years. Humanity must step back and take a long, serious look at the big picture and stop trying to rob Peter to pay Paul.
1.) Negative, it is restoring the equilibrium to climate system that we have been disrupting since the industrial revolution due to GHGs, one in which we must get a hold of and restore to temperatures prior to the industrial revolution or we will be doomed! 2.) Correct about less water vapor! Cooling is what we need to do in order to restore our climate back to temperatures prior to the industrial revolution. GHGs are warming the climate and cause more water vapor to form due to our oceans warming more and more. It is only going to get worse and worse! 3.) No such thing as free energy!
My last post was quite clear. ... but not by removing the GHGs and "re-sequestering" the carbon back underground. So the GHGs would remain, and the equilibrium would not be actually restored. ... and tunnels will fix the warming, but not the GHGs. The word "fix" has an interesting, yet unintended, double meaning with regard to GHGs. In chemistry, "to fix" means "to make solid, permanent, non-volatile, etc". I am saying that we can only truly fix the GHG problem by "fixing" the GHGs themselves (ie, putting them back underground). Keep in mind that global warming is not the only symptom of atmospheric pollution. For example, man-made pollutants also cause global dimming, so now symptom-fixing people need to fix the GHG symptom of global dimming: — Couplings Between Changes in the Climate System and Biogeochemistry
Carbon would take thousands of years but not the other GHGs! Tunnels fix the GHG problem by not emitting anymore of them thus allowing us to get off of them. They also fix the pollutant problem associated with GHGs and this allows us to have cleaner air which will lead to less cancers,heart problems,asthma and stroke problems! See list of carcinogens associated with Particulate matter: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569408/?page=3
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The proof that tunnels work is that they don't. Although if you suggested that they do, you're in no sense of the word mistaken.
To build a structure that could support the material that is needed to generate the electricity then convey it back to shore would be very expensive then what would happen when a catagory 5 hurricane came along with 50 foot seas and 200 MPH winds that could destroy this platform? :shrug:
