God Must Exist;

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Jan Ardena, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I agree that it wasn't a reply to Jan's question. However Jan's question wasn't a relevant question to my prior statement. I pulled Jan BACK to my original meaning.

    No. Simply because someone uses a word in a discussion and I reply doesn't mean that I have an actual perception of the thing under discussion. (Note the number of times I have asked for definitions &c. in such discussions.) Like Jan's attempts at blue monkeys.

    I didn't claim I was. Please read the thread and see where the Piraha came up.

    It's all Jan's managed so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
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  3. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    "author unknown"

    If Nietzsche didn't say it then he should have done.

    Dee Cee
     
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  5. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    not sure if that is what the author meant.
    if god actually exists would you say he/ she/ it/ they is a dictator?
    i envision a dictator as forcing you into something against your will.
     
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  7. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    there is no proof.. you shouldnt have to have faith in something for it to exist.. things that actually exist. are seen and known by everyone reguardless of what they think or beliefs are
     
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    bingo.
    for some reason this seems to be what god is all about. but why faith? why is that important?
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    I think it is only a small percentage of any population who suffer from that kind of mental illness. Unfortunately those are also the most aggressive.

    Note: i said any population but remeber these effect small populations\groups and its not always the cream that rises to the top. You have sociopaths and even psychotics to contend with.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  10. drumbeat Registered Senior Member

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    Just because I believe something doesn't exist doesn't mean he exists.

    I don't believe the Christian God exists.
    In my head is an imagination, an idea of what the Christian God is. This might not be the same as everyone else's idea or image, but the image I have of him does not exist in my reality.
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    Thats nice but why keep repeating it?
     
  12. John99 Banned Banned

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    What is even stranger is that i am not aware of geniuses that wanted to be worshipped. Mostly the opposite though...
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, on pain of eternal torture. If God exists, it's a psychopath.
     
  14. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Sciforums moves awfully fast. This whole thread has appeared and grown to several pages since I was here yesterday. For the record, I'm going to post my reactions to Jan's idea, even if most of my points have already been made by others before me.

    Well, the word 'god' obviously exists in the English language. That word is associated with a whole variety of often-inconsistent traditional stories, meanings and supposed attributes, typically drawn from one of the major theistic religious traditions. (Here in the US that's usually Christianity.)

    When I say that I don't believe that God exists, I'm not typically using the word 'God' in any precise sense to refer to the named deity(ies) of any single tradition. I'm kind of rhetorically waving my arm at all of that kind of stuff.

    So that's a problem for your theory right there, since the word 'God' doesn't seem to have a clear and consistent reference to any single object, whether existent or imaginary. In other words, it isn't entirely clear what we are talking about (and in your theory, forming a relationship with) when we use the word 'God'.

    I'm going to disagree pretty strongly with that one. Having a concept of the meaning of some word, even if the concept is clear and precise, isn't the same thing as perceiving the referrant of the word. Even in Christian theology, thinking of the word 'God' isn't the same thing as having a revelatory vision of God.

    That might be true, if God is only taken to be a human concept. The fictional character Sherlock Holmes is a real concept too, one that might be more precise and detailed than the concept of God in fact. Invisible pink unicorns is a concept that I just thought of and therefore presumably exists (as a concept).

    But theists are typically making much stronger ontological claims than that about their God. Atheists aren't denying that the concept of 'God' exists. They use the word 'God' themselves and presumably they assume that it possesses some meaning, however vague. What atheists are denying, and theists are affirming, is that the word 'God' actually refers to something above and beyond the concept.
     
  15. John99 Banned Banned

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    You are describing Agnostics and not Atheists though.
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    Well look at Frankenstein. Frankenstein was not a robot, if he was a robot his problems would not have existed. Could Frankenstein have been emotionally detached? Just doesnt seem possible yet Dr. Frankenstein built him to the best of his ability.
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    OK fine we have free will, but the governing model of the divine is that of a totalitarian, psychopathic bully.
     
  18. John99 Banned Banned

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    You know...organic life is mysterious, to us. We've only had limited success figuring out humans, i mean primarily the old grey marble.
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    But it won't be religion that does it, it will be science.
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    We should have spent all that time trying to figure ourselves out....first.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I find the subject matter interesting, and provocative.

    jan.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    drumbeat,


    It must exist on some level.

    And what is the source of those imaginings?

    jan.
     
  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Bells,

    Not first hand.

    How do you know that a tree makes a sound when it falls, and you're not there to witness it?


    But you have no memory of a tree falling down while being absent.

    You would most probably regard the awsomeness of nature as God.
    Or at least something superior to yourself, to whom you depend upon.

    That would depend on my overall experience of life.
    If a newly planted tree was to fall over, would it make the same sound?
    No.

    jan.
     

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