Yes, a straight face, really Ganymede, the purpose of the Holocaust was the death and destruction of selected races, ethnicity, sexual orientations, and religions. The purpose of slavery was to deliver a live body for sale and exploitation, if a slaved died, you lost your investment, and any profit from the sale. Slavery was not intended to wipe out whole races, it was intended to exploit a labor pool, not the cold blooded murder of specifically selected targets.
So you are saying the purpose not the results make the holocaust worse. Is there a reason why we go by the purpose? But notice Ganymede was responding to someone who says SPECIFICALLY the results were worse. But they were not worse. See my previous post.
i still don't understand. what holocaust are we talking about here? :huh: Bcz I was talking (in general) that being put into a holocaust that occurs would be worse than being put into slavery
I definitely have to say that far more people died, were lost and cultures were destroyed in slavery...It seems clear it was far worse that the attempted genocide which he was doomed to fail at. (Hitler) For a little perspective on slavery in a creative way....Read Orson Scott Card's book, Pastwatch: The Redemption of Columbus.
Imagine Hitler's holocaust going on for more than four centuries... I fear that not much from humanity, or culture as such would be left.
The difference between out right, ideologically...politically driven.... murder, vs: what in all reality was shipping loss, again the purpose of slavery wasn't to murder the victim, it was to exploit the victim. The Holocaust was a intentional cold blooded political decision, to murder selected races, the Jews and the Roma, along with "Lebensunwertes Leben" ("Life unworthy of life"), the disabled. A modern 20th Century Society, willingly walked down the path step by step of government sanctioned racial murder.
Right. What sets the Holocaust apart from the steady stream of atrocities that mankind has delivered over the millennia, is the industrialization of murder, and the consciously attempted total and utter eradication of a particular group, in the modern era. This fact does not minimize the tragedy or import of slavery or the Gulags, etc.
But those tragedies do not rise to the horror of a deliberate industrialized murder of a race, by a so called civilized modern society. For all it's tragedy, slavery isn't intended to wipe out races.
No argument the horror. No argument the tragedy. But, one would have hoped that this would have been the last of such horrors. Sadly not.
Correct. What it was intended for was the lack of recognition of others as human beings because of the colour of their skin. What was intended was the dehumanisation of fellow human beings for profit and gain. What was intended was that it became normal for a human being to own another human being as though he/she were cattle. While slavery was not a deliberate industrialised murder because of a race, slavery was the above because of their race. The tragedy is not just that the holocaust happened, but that it has been repeated since then and we did nothing about it because of race and because it would not have been profitable for us, the "so called civilized modern society" to stop it. I think that one day, after we as a race are gone or have evolved, those that will come after us will sift through the remains of our society and question whether we were civilized at all, because we have been and continue to be able to sit idly by and allow such tragedies to occur. I agree with you Buffalo. I don't think one can actually compare slavery to the Holocaust. Both were horrific in their own right and both for different reasons. To compare them is to diminish the horrors of both events in our history. You can't compare because neither have anything to compare to and cannot be compared to the other. I can't compare what my ancestors went through to the horrors of those who suffered at the hands of the Nazis, because there is no comparison. Both are equally horrific in their own way.
atleast alot of those jews were gassed and burned so they didnt have to suffer for long. the ones in the work camps are the ones who told the stories about how brutal it was but they were a small fraction of the total jews affected by the nazis. the slaves had it worst cause they were beaten regularly and had their limbs cut off and slavery lasted hundreds of years, if you didnt work then you were beaten till you did the work. the nazis just shot you in the head if you couldnt keep up with your job. remember history or were doomed to repeat it
Reading this thread, I had to delve back to wonder what prompted such a comparison of atrocity. Otherwise cogent until Kadark throws in the J-word, probably for the obvious reason.
:bugeye: You mean they were gased and burned after years of suffering and abuse? I mean I can't believe you actually said this. And even if they had not told of what had happened, the Nazis kept meticulous records and frankly, the ghostly images of the survivors and the photos and film footage, not to mention the countless of mass graves, the things they stole off the bodies of the Jews.. would have given a fair indication of the horror that occured. I really don't think one cay say 'well it's better because they were gased quickly and not made to suffer for longer like slaves'.. Both are equally appalling in their own right. I'm sorry, but what? That could be counted with the fact that not all slaves were beaten for example, just as not all Jews were mistreated in the camps. That does not take away from revolting things that were done to them. Nor does it lessen make one worse than the other. Both were bad in their own right. You can't compare it because each was distinct to the other. Trying to compare which human suffering is worse than the other is impossible and is not something we should do. The reason being that we then hold it as a benchmark and will fail to act if other horrible acts against humans does not reach that benchmark.
@ bells ofcourse this stuff is controversal but its opinion, and my comment on them being gasses and burned was most of them were killed their first day entering the camps. stop making strawman arguments cause i know im right about my comment. if i had to pick i would we a jew, atleast i would have a quick death, what would you pick?
Really? That would be why all the "living" quarters were set up then. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
