Did time flow slower in the huge gravity field of the early universe

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Alan McDougall, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    Did time flow slower in the huge gravity field of the early universe. ??
     
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  3. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    Did time flow slower in the early universe

    If we accept that time is not a constant and flows at different rates in different gravity fields how did time begin to flow in the enormous almost infinite gravity at the moment of the big bang singularity?

    Alan
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It's a relative thing. Time only flows slower or faster from somebody's point of view. Nobody ever notices his own time flowing faster or slower. How could he? Think about it. If time suddenly started running at 1/10th the rate it is now, how could you possibly know about it?
     
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  7. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Not according to anything that existed in the early universe. A second is always a second to any observer no matter their surroundings. Plus (sorry ... I have to throw a wrench into your wheel) it is believed that, in the early universe, thd gravitational force was reversed (it pushed instead of pulled) and so ... If you where immersed inside this type of gravitational field, time would seem to move faster for you compared to someone else outside of that same field. As James said, "It's a relative thing".
     
  8. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    This anti-gravity thing is it the god particle the that they hope to discover with help from the Large Hadron Collider in Sweden?
     
  9. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe :shrug: . The Higgs Boson might have something to do with it but, just for the record, the name "The God Particle" comes from flashy media headlines not science. The Higgs Boson is the theoretical particle responsible for mass. If the LHC can find it then that would be a huge groundbreaking discovery. If the LHC can't find it then, ... well, ... we'll still get some good observations from the device.
     
  10. BertBonsai Registered Senior Member

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    You could know by observing distant objects. Distant receding objects would recede faster as measured by you, for example. The only way you couldn't possibly know is if there was universal time, like in Newton's theory.
     
  11. BertBonsai Registered Senior Member

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    With higher density (higher gravitational potential) time would have flowed slower then than now, for equivalent observers, like humans floating in space. That has major implications that aren't recognized (or, it seems, even considered) by cosmologists today. For example, matter could in principle recede from an observer (as measured by that observer) at any multiple of one light year per year, which would easily solve the horizon problem.
     
  12. BertBonsai Registered Senior Member

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    Why can't time begin to flow regardless whether it flows at different rates in different gravity fields? What does one have to do with the other?
     
  13. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    Movement requires time, entropy need time to flow from zero entropy to infinite entropy, so in the infinite gravity of the big bang nothing should have happened according to current known physics

    This suggest that at the moment of the big bang there was an unknown physical constant at work

    Alan
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You are wrongly assuming that the big bang was a high-entropy state. In fact, it was a low-entropy state.

    There's no problem here for known physics.
     
  15. BertBonsai Registered Senior Member

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    According to the theory, the big bang was the start of time. There never was infinite gravity; it was finite (and the universe was also infinite in size) at the beginning of the first moment.
     
  16. BertBonsai Registered Senior Member

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    He does say "from zero entropy"; i.e. starting out low.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Well, I fail to see where the problem is supposed to be.
     
  18. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    No James respectfully it is you that is wrong, entropy can only move from a low state into a higher state, this is a fundamental of simple thermodynamics

    You cannot reverse entropy such as heating up a hot body from a cold source.
     
  19. BertBonsai Registered Senior Member

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    The two of you are in agreement that entropy goes from low to high.
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Yes. I still can't work out why Alan McDougall thinks there is a problem.
     
  21. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    Hi James it is like this on the the Sun more extreme gravity gravity field time moves slower than it does within the lighter gravity Field of earth.

    Lets thing about the huge enormous gravity Field of a neutron star relative to us time would almost stop compared to time n earth

    Within the almost infinite gravity of the singularity using the same logic and scientific fact time should have stopped but somehow it defies Einstein and flowed anyway
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Alan:

    How can you tell that time runs slower on the Earth's surface? Answer: the only way is to compare it to somewhere else. For instance, take a clock into space and compare the rate it runs to the rate a clock on Earth runs.

    Now, how do you propose to compare the rate that time flowed just after the big bang to the rate at which it flows now? Tell me.
     
  23. Alan McDougall Alan McDougall Registered Senior Member

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    I would say at the moment of the big bang singularity the known laws or constants did not apply. Time must have moved or we would not be discussing this enigma here

    I agree we cannot know because we did not have a clock in the singularity and a clock of earth (Which was of course did not exist yet

    I know about the two atomic clock one on an airplane and one on earth, thus this is not theory but factual hard science
     

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