Israeli right winger endorses one state solution!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by S.A.M., Jun 2, 2010.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    because it is



    You
    No I know it does. with the rule of law everthing collapses.
    Seems to me you care more about what is convienent and easy than right and wrong.
    it was neither legal nor ethical.

    they can be and I'm all for ignoring and doing away with them in such a case but the laws that come into play aren't bad laws.

    their were some cultures that felt that way and still do but that belief has fallen to the way side as it cannot protect such a claim.

    some pleaces haven't been conquered since they have been settled

    this is an extreme veiw that is disconencted from reality.

    I'm not saying it isn't theft just that it being legal limits the legal recourse available.
    I have yet to here true legalistic claims from ISrael and the law is only irrelevant to those who lack the disaplince to follow them.

    all land is not stolen. rather than deal with useless fictions let us deal with reality.
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Why? I mean, suppose you have a non-Semitic Jew whose family has lived there for 300 years versus a "Semitic" Jew whose family has lived there for 30 days? Say an Ethiopian family or whatever...

    What about non-Semitic Muslims and non-Semitic Christians.

    Oh, what is a "Semitic" person? I mean, is there a test?
     
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  5. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Call it Israel until a peaceful and democratic consensus renames the state- but let Israel respect human rights including Palestinian right of return with just compensation for estates seized, in exchange for the restoration of Jewish life sans "dhimitude" throughout the Mideast- swuch a bargain would and does theologically require the acceptance of mainstream Muslims, Christians, Druze, and even secular-humanists. A single-state solution with extranational components to the agreement, that encompass the whole region. Revive the Jewish communities and Synogogues, and all the rest that belong to the entire community of nations locally and beyond. A post-apartheid Israel living in peace with her neighbors is not only possible, but imperative in the long term for the perpetuity of a state with a distinctly Jewish heritage (but forsaking an unBiblical and exclusively Jewish citizenry, and forsaking ethnic separatism).
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    The Palestinians could peacefully create a single state tomorrow. All they have to do is convert to Judaism! They can always convert back later.
     
  8. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! Oh wow you are really a dreamer aren't you? You forgot to end it with 'and there was then peace on earth'. Oy Vey! Revive the jewish communities and synagogues locally and beyond indeed. Did Tinker Bell come and relay all this to you?

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  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    So all they would have to do is give up their freedom of religion why does it not surprise me you'd come up with a solution that involves bigotry and the palestinians giving up yet more rights.
     
  10. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Any solution that does not involve the full restoration of Palestine to the Arabs is unjust.
     
  11. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Lucysknow: "Oy Vey! Revive the jewish communities and synagogues locally and beyond indeed. Did Tinker Bell come and relay all this to you?


    Here's one I've walked through. AFAIK until today nobody talks very loud in there. They mostly look around and think. Some people weep openly. And they talk about these things all the time in such neighborhoods, which exist in every noteworthy and ancient Arab city. Do you really think that Arabs can't get over judeophobia as quickly as (let's say) USis got over each successive "jap" "gook" and other evil memes? We've caught these kind of viruses all over the world now, enough that most people are beginning to understand symptoms and underlying dis-ease. And guess what- we're all happy when we overcome a case of the nazis. Oy vey! Even non-Jew Arabs!

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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  12. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    I don't see what is wrong with just supporting Fatah in their efforts to develop a real, functioning government in West Bank, and just allow Israel and West Bank to develop a properly interwoven legal and economic system to such a point as to make them effectively inextricable from one another and also beholden to each other by treaty and international law. After all, the only reason we need nationalism is to define people's right to govern themselves as they choose, not according to someone else's ideals. Beyond that, we do need to accept a degree of interdependence and accountability to one another. We can just accept that the two-state solution allows Palestinians and Jews both to live the way of life that they would choose for themselves without either forcing a way of life on the other, and the only reason to create any overarching gubernatorial architecture for the entire region should be to address issues that can reasonably said to pertain to all, viz the EU.

    But that would require us to behave rationally. Screw that, right?

    Wave the palms, steal the alms,
    A fist in the air.
    A motorcade of benign strength shows
    The people that you care, oww.


    The Jews and the Palestinians just don't have enough in common as a culture to ever mesh well. We tried shoving Iraq into functioning as a unified nation-state, and it sucked. Forcing these very different cultures together would be imperialistic and stupid. Period. Seriously, talk about the Americans being presumptuous, you, S.A.M., seem inclined to go into America's playbook, the British Empire's playbook, and repeat every disastrous and stupid decision our respective cultures have ever made, just with different players involved.

    Oh, but understanding that would require us to be logical and pay attention to historical precedent. Screw that, right? I mean, around here, we all seem to blast our opinions out of our buttholes without even bothering to do five minutes of research.

    Throw it on the fire.
    Throw it in the air.
    Kick it out on the dance floor
    Like you just don't care, oww.


    The two-state solution is the only one that leaves both Israel and West Bank with a degree of independence from each other. Any government that were installed to rule over all of them would just not work out all that well. Not unless it were carefully defined to prevent it from shoving one culture's ideals down the other's throats. What I WOULD endorse would be for Israel to relax their immigration policy, but that's because I'm one of those "borderless world" idealists. Only, unlike you, S.A.M., I believe in making that ideal come true for real rather than repeating the mistakes of the past based on the idiotic, reactive, emotional thinking that caused those mistakes to happen in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
  13. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    As part of any deal giving Palestinians full right of immigration to Israel, we should also include the following: Turks, Albanians and Kosovars leave Europe (including Constantinople) and move to the traditional Asian portions of Turkey. Anyone with greater genetic connections to Saudi Arabia/Yemen than to the countries of north Africa moves back to Saudi Arabia. Anyone with greater genetic connections to Saudi Arabia or Persia than to Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan or Egypt must also return to those countries.

    Whoever's left that has greater genetic connection to the Palestinian territories than to anywhere else, they can stay. Anything less than this would be just another underhanded way of promoting Islamic conquest- we must make it clear to all Muslims that no conquest is irreversible, and they don't get to choose which conquests are untouchable just because their man-made copies of the Quran might happen to say so. The Arabs will also have to set aside a contiguous piece of valuable, fertile land 4X the size of Israel and with access to international waters, to compensate the Jews for what was taken from them after 1948.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So the Geneva conventions and Nuremberg trials. They mean anything to you or what? Where are you indigenous to?
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    My ancestry is primarily German. I am indigenous to Canada, because aboriginals have full right of return here (they're all here now anyhow). Any native tells me to get out, I say to them "I was born here prick, I'm a native too!" But if Israelis are to be treated as illegitimate conquerors, then whatever is done to them must be done to everyone in the region. You want to go digging up dirt? Let's dig, there's a lot more muslims in the world than jews, and they've accumulated a LOT more dirt over the centuries.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So you think the right to live somewhere is determined by where one is born?

    Why weren't you born in Germany?
     
  17. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I wasn't born in Germany because my family moved around and much of it ended up in Canada. International law says you have the right to live in the land where you're born. That means Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon are entitled to Lebanese citizenship, and Lebanon should be punished for keeping them in concentration camps. Same with Jordan, Syria and Egypt.

    If the rules are to be changed so that all Palestinians born in other countries are entitled to live in Israel, then the rules must also be changed so that Muslims and Arabs living in lands that were conquered and didn't originally belong to them must now revert back to their origins, and if no one's left to claim those lands because they were all slaughtered and raped out of existence, then the lands should instead be given to those in need of them, such as the Jews you want to exile.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Which international law says that you have a right to live where you are born?

    Do you consider yourself German? Or aboriginal Canadian?

    Should aboriginal Canadians have a right to live in Canada?

    Were the British wrong to leave India and American after 200 years of occupation?
     
  19. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I believe it's in the UN Charter of Human Rights.

    I consider myself native to the land. A white aboriginal with German DNA.

    They do. And if you have 1st nations status, in theory you have more rights than anyone else in the country (i.e. I'm a "second class" aboriginal).
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Could you point it out to me?



    And this native status is determined by what?

    Why do they have this status?


    Gandhi said:


    Were the British wrong to leave India and American after 200 years of occupation?
    What is your opinion of this?
     
  21. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    So again, let's make a trade: Israeli conquests in exchange for Arab, Persian, and all other Muslim conquests. Europe should get in on it too, a lot of land was snatched from there that needs to be paid back.

    Or..... everyone could just feck right off and work with the world we have now instead of being grouchy and trying to snatch more of it for one group or another.
     
  22. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I'd love to, but I'd rather you just looked for yourself and tell me all the sections that don't corroborate what I say.
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    If the Jews all go back to where they came from in the last 60 years ie after the Geneva conventions, and the Arabs agreed to return everything they have stolen after those laws were passed, would you be agreaable to it?

    Usually passing a law makes actions after the law is passed liable. I don't believe that except for the singular instance of Nuremberg, any law has been retroactively applied. If it were, the British would be royally fucked
     

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