Star Wars vs Star Trek

The threads merged, but without the extra poll.

 

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You have absolutely no idea what the fuck you're talking about, do you?:bugeye:

 

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Uhm... no...

NDF is more like a Plasma Torch, while DET is more like a chainsaw...

The DET is faster against some targets, useless against others without IMMENSE power advantages, and pointless overkill on others (eg, tree, steel plate, and cardboard in that order)

The NDF is effective against all of those equally, though sometimes having odd and unexpected effects (cuts through tree and metal just as easily, but would ignite and burn the cardboard)

 

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What? NDF would be harmless against shields, DET wouldn't.

 

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If that were true, then please, explain to me - what are those energy barriers in Star Trek that stop both Projectile, Energy, and Ballistic based impacts?

And if what you are saying is true, then why do Ion Cannons take down ship systems through shields in Star Wars... I mean, what you just said basically implies that, if the energy of the weapon is not enough to simply overpower the shield, then said weapon will have zero effect. Obviously that is not true, as is evidenced by the fact that Fighters pose ANY threat to capital ships, the fact that it takes more than one shot to take down shields in both Trek and Wars (if what you said is true, a billion shots over time would have the same effect as a single shot, which, according to what you just said, is zero)

 

I *was* referring to their effects against gigaton-petaton shielding.

 

Well, for one, you still haven't provided evidence of such power levels beyond what could be circumstantial evidence based on your personal claims for firepower.

Secondly, that still doesn't make any sense - you are claiming an exotic particle based weapon would have no effect on a very standard base shielding system simply because the shield is stronger? That's like saying a DU Sabot round will have no effect on a tank because the tank is more massive... yet we all know the effect a SABOT round has on a tank.

 

well in our world the methods to achieve those two things are kind of primative. Using supercooled liquids being one of the methods.
By I think on a more advanced scale, flash freezing can be achieved through a reaction of at least 2 chemical compounds that when in contact can reduce the heat (that makes atoms vibrate rapidly the higher the temp.) of molecules in a way that causes the liquid to become solid almost instantly (depending on the volume of water). I know I'm missing something from this and I can't remember what it is.......

EDIT: also, http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=261c7b4703ead3758eacdd42cfb2ab4e

other than the chemical reaction I mentioned the other two examples above are methods in our world. The latter not having been realized yet.
I can't remember the details from other scifi for these two things, perhaps somebody else has a better memory

 

This has relevance to ST how exactly? Do they use this?

 

In response to what Rice?

 

Apocalypse. Also, W40k ships are *not* clunky and would easily hit the ST ships.

 

Hardly, but there's no point in providing evidence to show you how wrong you are as you'll ignore it and go blathering on about something else *sighs*

A slower-than-light projectile will NEVER hit a Trek ship. Even a HyperSonic one would have to have some sort on on-board guidance and would require the trek ship to be nearly stationary. In the end, the reason weapons in WH40K are so accurate is because...

Well, fuck, look at what they're shooting at. It'd be like asking you to shoot at the broad side of a barn with a blunderbuss at 20 paces... if you managed to miss, something is terribly, terribly wrong.

 

How?

Except in all those fights they aren't going at FTL or even a fraction of c, which is most in TNG.

That's besides the point. The Imperium can hit a small escort the size of a kilometer fairly easily, then they can hit ships the size of Borg Cubes or Galaxy Classes. They have so many minor guns that can vaporize a ST ship in a heartbeat, it's not funny. Weapons batteries and lances use lots of tiny guns to form one massive line of firepower. Also, a ship turning on shields near a planet vaporized most of it, how funny is that, a single ship has the potential of tens of zettatons.

 

The fact that we have seen FTL combat in Star Trek (TNG, TOS, VOY, and DS9) overrides any and all statements you make to claim they cannot do it. Yes, most combat does NOT occur at FTL - however, their weapons (phasers and torpedoes) travel at high relativistic speeds, as stated on screen. Also, their impulse drives move ships at high fractional light speeds (and in some cases, as already stated earlier) appear to move their ships at GREATER than light speed.

Also, consider the Ent-E (widely considered the most powerful pure-warship in the Federation) is at most 700m, and far quicker and more agile than anything I've ever seen in WH40K while at sublight, and you have a target shoot that would be similar to the Executor trying to hit an x-wing with it's co-axial superlaser... it simply wont' happen.

 

Don't you mean the Eclipse? It's the one with the superlaser.

 

Yeah, that one - hell, I knew it started with an E, and all SSD's are the same - they get punked by a few men in much smaller vessels

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I don't know if it was destroyed or not. It's an EU thing.

Yeah that sucks. You've got a ship with nearly 1000 batteries, and you get destroyed by one fighter. Then you get to battlestations that can destroy planets and the same thing happens.

 

Modern day supercarriers can get owed by an F-16 with nuclear payloads

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Do I have to bring up that the Imperium uses lasers which are basically light speed? They hit Tau capital ships that are actually smaller than 1km escorts all the time, hell, if they can hit ships smaller than Federation ones, they most certainly can do so to the Enterprise.

Proof? This is not as fast as W40k ships. Also, this Imperial Escort is a kilometer, see how the Tau ships is close to Federation size.. There is really no battle here. The Imperium ships have bombs that kill atmospheres and life on planet as a common relic (Virus Bomb), whereas the whole plot device of Nemesis was a giant gun that shot radiation that would kill Earth in seconds.

They have ships that cross 100,000 light years in 12 months which is 101,464.44c, whereas in "Clues" it would take nearly a day to cross 1.7604 light years, or 642.51079c, but hey, let's use the 37.8 years (7,000 over 2 years and 7 months = that long to cross a galaxy), and we get 7.6 light years a day, or 2,773.848c. The speed disadvantage is tremendous for the Federation. Am I using the upper limit? Let me use a lower speed feat, like the Rock crossing 1,000 ly in a week, and we get almost 143 light years a day, or 52,192.14c.

They have weapons that can vaporize adult male human torsos in a single shot (let's say 105 pounds). A single gram takes 2.260 kilojoules to vaporize, and there are 48,000 grams in the amount of water in the average human body, therefor it would take 108.480 megajoules, of course, that it for the entirety of the water in body. Pay in mind that the Celsius is 4.1 J/gram, and the stomach is 37 degrees Celsius. 151.7 Joules over 48,000 grams is 7,281,600 joules, or 7.281600 megajoules extra. Don't say the Phaser can too, because the shot takes an eternity to actually stop firing, whereas the Las-Gun has a quick rate of fire, or at least far faster than the Phaser.

 

Not really - the CVN-65 carries enough anti-air capability to take out pretty much anything airborne within something around 300 miles, not to mention the ability to intercept incoming torpedoes, missiles, and to a limited extent, bombs.