City Revives Paddling, sees major improvement in Behavior

oh no i dont disagree at all. tbh, i just saw the word spanking and didnt realize this was the thread about schools. i already made my position on this clear that it should be left to the parents to be the parent and discipline their children so they do not infringe on the rights of others.

 

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I have no issues with most forms of punishment as long as its the parents that carry it out. This instance is not the case. If a stranger punished my child I would hurt him. On the other hand if a stranger pointed out my childs negative behavior, I would discipline my child.

 

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Links are not necessarily 'scientific proof'. I thought this was the other thread, as i explained in the post above. I do not agree with the OP.

 

Paddling in schools performs the same function as the death penalty does in larger society.

Both are important. Both are needed.

 

So ... nothing useful, then?

Satisfies a primal, animalistic need for revenge?

 

Not really.

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You used no descriptives that made it occasional or possible or remote...
You simply said, twice, sadistic-- dirty mind.

Now that you've used proper descriptives, I can agree.
There ARE occasional bad cops, too.

No and it's irrelevant. What you are replying to is the result of you NOT saying "occasional."
You labeled a School Administrator is simply twisted right off the bat. It was a general statement from you.

 

I used the singular throughout, not that it matters - even with the plural, nowhere there is a universal claim made or implied.

None is necessary, for the argument. Don't forget about the actual argument, OK - I was responding to Ophiolite's attempt to define certain kinds of hitting as non-violent due to the "intent" of the hitter alone.

It's directly relevant, to the argument being made.

Even the advocates of hitting these kids defend only justified, properly moderated, well-intentioned hitting. One of my points was that they cannot possibly guarantee that.

The other, equally telling, point is that the best intentioned hitting is problematical, considering what we see of subsequent events in the lives of the hit. At best, we see "normal" adults - no apparent harm done.

 

There is no such thing as relativism when it comes to the conduct of how we should treat the young. Forcibly confining them in buildings with strangers who don't care about them and then giving said strangers the power to use physical force on them (on top of humiliation) if they don't behave like easily manageable obedient drones is dangerous and pathological. It’s symptomatic of a society that has absolutely no ability to experience genuine empathy, and is only interested in controlling and exploiting the vulnerable.

 

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful, impatient and wild."
--Hesiod

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
--Socrates

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
--Plato, student of Socrates

Every generation says the same things about kids. It is not "apparent" at all that it is ever true.

 

Yes, it is. If you make the general statement, it is implied.

If you had not meant it that way, so be it. You've now learned to not call School Administrators Dirty minded or Sadistic without clarifying that you meant the few that actually may be.

It is only relevant in cases discussed outside what the OP covers.

This is true.
This is why I have been defending their position.

That it cannot be guaranteed and that there is not enough evidence of benefit is why I've retracted my claims and changed sides.

Changing my position in order to increase accuracy does not, however, mean that I am going to agree with all the "anti" arguments made.

This topic alone would be a deep discussion.

Simply because we have little solid evidence to go on of the factors of development.

Good point.
I'll consider that statement refuted.

 

Wow.

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Interesting the angles and pov some take on this.

Do you really feel schools are evil?

 

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yes spanking and hitting are 2 different words

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t062100.asp
scroll down

if the child didn't listen to what i was saying after all other options are used yes

read above

my parents did take balls away i found something else to do that i knew was wrong.
lets try your way and twist and patronize me for my beliefs
so you would take ever ball away from the child?

Personal attack

never once did i say tazer children your the one who keeps comparing children to adults

yes i know they are.. they should only be used when the officer is being over ran by the suspect and is unarmed. they are more for females i want to See a 130lb female take on an 260 built guy not going to happen. the taser evens the playing field and gives the officer the upper hand.. to be quite honest id rather get tasered 100 times then hit in the face with a baton

again your talking about adults this topic is about children yet you keep bringing adults into it. if you touch me its assault if you touch your child its not
if you spank a child properly after all options are exhausted you explain to the child what they did wrong and pat them on the butt it is very effective

spanking or touching an adult is assault. spanking your child is not this has been said many many times i guess you just refuse to read it

yes its a violation between 2 adults 2 kids that but from parent - child not pulling pants down is not when did i say paddle hair brush wtf? and belt i never said to use any object i had them used on me yes i never said using an object once again twisting what I'm saying

if you give someone a high five your hitting them with force too. in the article i believe it was the parents who pushed for it.

pointless argument STOP COMPARING CHILDREN TO ADULTS its not the same! now your comparing children to animals dogs are about as smart as a 2 year old thats about it and hitting any how is abuse why? because you can explain to the dog 100000000times why you did it he still wont understand your reasoning outside of maybe chewing crap he still wont understand why with a dog you physically close its mouth huddle over it and wait a min or 2 physically touching the dog to get the point across i want to see you train a dog without ever touching him or her its impossible

No, reason is because they don't know what they are doing is wrong "depending on what type of disability is"

it doesn't matter how many studies you have read quite frankly i don't give a fuck, I went through getting spanked it it has had no effect on me. and I'm sure theres millions more out there just like me. having gone Through it no amount of studies is going to make me believe that spanking has long term effects "if used properly" on the child I'm living proof of that and what were the symptoms of these long term effects? a study like that would need to take at least 20 years to complete

spank them? yes

doing your best and not trying are 2 different things... I'm positive if your parents knew how smart you were and just flat out weren't trying or just enough to get by they would have taken action if not thats a parent failure in my opinion.

IE if you know your child is a B student and is getting all Ds

personal attack, on an example.. priceless

its all HE, HE, HE this isn't about me alone its about spanking in general i don't appreciate you pointing the finger at me for my beliefs and millions of others feel the same way that i do if spanking is used properly its a great tool with 0 side effects i don't give a fuck what studies say im living proof of that..

I'm a bad speller so? just noticed the spell check thing up there ill put it to use.

and finally i respect your opinion on spanking if you spank them great if you choose not to thats also great this whole debate is you attacking and not respecting me for my opinions when i respect yours. so instead of trying to call me out on examples trying to connect spanking with spelling personally attacking me how about you just talk about it in general. the only reason i put myself in the mix is because i was spanked and have had 0 side effects.. if my parents hadn't taken punishments to that level i wouldn't be as successful as i am right now. and no amount of studies you post will make me change my mind the fact is they are wrong all of them unless they put "in some cases"

 

Given that school pretty much destroyed my will to exist I have no problem making this claim. If one is so inclined to dig deep into the history of schooling, the view of human nature that the authoritarian-behaviorist method of traditional educational practice forces into people, and learn to deconstruct the classroom environment from first principles rather than accepting it all at face value, its clear that the reality of schools is a far cry from the mythology that we’re taught. On this topic, the author John Taylor Gatto is a crucial voice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ogC...32541FC5&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=19

 

From how I was raised... In sifreak21's example, Timmy's throwing of the ball is not what Timmy is in trouble for after the first or second time you have to tell Timmy to stop, he can no longer claim ignorance. Timmy has been asked not to throw the ball, Timmy has been explained to, why throwing the ball is bad. Assuming Timmy is not an infant and each instance is not taking place several weeks apart, he is being obstinate and defiant on purpose. Timmy should be in trouble for being disobedient and not listening, not simply because he was throwing a ball.

Is that not the issue you would address if your child was behaving in the same manner, repeatedly doings things they had been told not to do?

 

thats exactly what i meant. its not that Timmy is throwing the ball its that Timmy is disobeying his parent and yes they happened right after each other not over weeks

 

Trailer for The War on Kids, an excellent documentary about Public Education: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlnwm11d6II&feature=related