Is Racism about appearance?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by ElectricFetus, Apr 22, 2010.

  1. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    The races are not myths, Benny F.
    However, categorizing races is a futile effort as they are fluid and interchangeable.

    That does not make the existing races mythical and it is for the lack of solid categorization that that you use to justify your argument. It's a rationalization, nothing more and that is why you're running into problems with it.
     
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  3. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    What you and I are witnessing is the disintegration of the myth in the existence of a distinction between any two people based on little more than pigmentation and facial features, which are subject to biological laws, not racial ones. I, as an unbeliever in the myth, am proud that racism will disappear during this century. You may not be, but I am confident that it will happen anyway, because more and more people are becoming enlightened to the unscientific nature of the myth and to the potential harm of the bigotry that often results from the myth.

    Remember that B man and that C woman who have children and the difficulty they find in classifying those children into one of their own fictional races.
     
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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I did, if you offend someone on some kind of racial line, to them you are a bigot, it does not matter that you don't think its real, to them it real, and their feeling of offense is real.


    Why are you asking me this? I would not be asking why and how if I had the answer now would I? I not saying they should be continued I'm asking why they are and to what extent. Its straight through your eyes and back out the keyboard with you!

    Me: How is race being classified in racism, is it all about appearance?
    You: Race is mythical.
    Me: yeah, and so?
    You: Race is mythical.
    Me: Yeah, and so what?
    You: Race is mythical.
    Me: YEAH, AND SO FUCKING WHAT??
    You: Race is mythical.
    Me: ...

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  7. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Uncalled for. I have not advocated racism.

    Incorrect. Science is based upon evidence, examination and observation. It is not based on pretty or desirable ideas or outcomes.

    We can appreciate race, it's physical characteristics and lack bigotry just fine without lying to ourselves, being deluded or denying the evidence.
    Race exists just as Males and Females exist. Just as species exist.
     
  8. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    448
    If I am dancing with someone at a social event, and I happen to step on someone else's toes while I'm trying to talk to my dancing partner, does it really matter what they look like? In that situation, I'll say "I'm sorry I stepped on your toes", and it won't matter to me whether their skin is a different shade of brown than my own. If they think I deliberately did it because my skin is a different shade of brown than their own, that's THEIR problem, not mine. I've apologized for what I did (accidentally stepping on someone's toes while dancing), and I'm going to keep on dancing.


    BECAUSE race is mythical, I can never be a bigot, so I'll keep on dancing.

    And living like an enlightened member of the HUMAN race.
     
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, but to them and to other it will.

    Not unless you social standing has any influence on you, and considering your human and live in a society its does, one way or another.


    Good for you, I don't care. I was asking about something in no way relevant to your enlightenment, go snubbing somewhere else. Its like if I was to start a thread on circumcision preference and you where to step in and say the issue is irrelevant because your dick is "soooo BIG!" I don't care if you have to hire a small boy to help you carry it around, no one cares, leave us alone.
     
  10. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    Anybody who puts people into useless, unscientific, and potentially harmful color categories is continuing the myth.


    I'm not lying to anyone, and I'm promoting the scientific concepts that will eventually make racism disappear, soon after the actual bigotry does. If a B man has sex with a C woman, any children they have can't honestly be full members of either race, which makes the whole concept rather silly. I've just taken the next step in this intellectual process by saying that if the racial assumptions produce results like mixed-race children all over the world, who have trouble deciding which census box to put themselves into, then the assumption is wrong, and I 'm going to keep on dancing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010
  11. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    448
    Like I said, that will be THEIR problem, not mine, so I'm going to apologize for stepping on the other guy's toes (whatever he looks like) and I'm going to keep on dancing.


    I apologize for stepping on your toes, big boy.

    This is Benny, dancing away ....
     
  12. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    Irrelevant. The issue is that it is not a myth. Your rationalization is your own. It does not meet scientific definitions.
    You are promoting a concept that is ridiculous.
    I addressed this already.
     
  13. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    448
    Neither does race.
     
  14. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    Yes, it does.
    Unless you can remove all physical effects of racial differences, it does.

    Get over it, BennyF
     
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    When they fuck up your career, when on an all to often bases you have to explain what happened, when you have to hear the constant snickering and whispering of people around you, it will be your problem.

    Foolish snub.
     
  16. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

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    It's appearance. Lighter skinned Blacks have always been more socially acceptable, even in the Black community.
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Racism is generally directed at differences in culture. Since culture isn't readily apparent, appearance is often used to identify a person's culture. Language is another cue. People who don't speak your language, or who speak it with an accent, even if they look like you, are perceived as being from another culture.

    But appearance is not the primary factor in racism. A century and a half ago when the Irish began migrating to America, they were discriminated against heavily. They looked just like us and they even spoke English. But their culture was different. They were Catholic, at a time when Catholics were not popular here, and because America was (and still is) basically an English culture, the animosity between Brits and Irishmen was almost as strong here as in England. You still occasionally hear the racial epithet "Mick." Kid Rock used it in his song "Cowboy": "Drink like a Mick."

    Fifty years later the Italians started coming, and the same thing happened. The Italian genotype varied a little from the northwestern European genotype that was (and still is) dominant in America, but still if you put ten Italians in a room full of Americans, seven or eight of them would be inconspicuous. But they were Catholics and had other cultural differences, and there was tremendous discrimination against "Wops" or "Dagos."

    The Jews have intermarried with so many different ethnic groups during the Diaspora that there is barely any "Jewish genotype" at all any more. You have to walk into a room full of Jews before you start to discern any common racial characteristics in their appearance. Any single Jewish family is usually almost impossible to recognize by differences in appearance alone. They're good linguists (centuries of practice

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    ) and generally learn the language of their host country flawlessly. But their culture is different--especially the religion--so there is a lot of antisemitism.

    Appearance is a clue to the cultural difference that inspires racism, but it is not the cause of racism.
    There were originally four races.
    • 1. Our species originated in Africa, and the people who stayed there, with their dark skin, were called "negroid" in the old paradigm, which you don't hear much any more.
    • 2. Around 60KYA a small band of the San people (who now live in the southern part of Africa but there was no Sahara Desert then so they lived up near Sinai) walked out into Asia, and kept going (there was a famine due to an Ice Age and low rainfall) until they reached Australia, which due to the vagaries of weather patterns had lots of food. These people are the Australian aborigines. There's no "racial" name for them because until DNA analysis was done in this century nobody was quite sure of their origin. Most people thought they were a tribe of Africans who sailed over in historical times.
    • 3. Around 50KYA another small band of San people walked out again. This time there was no famine so they settled in Asia. The ones who stayed in western Asia, and their descendants who later (around 25KYA) migrated to Europe, were called "caucasoid." Skin color is a very ephemeral human trait so the people who moved north became very light or "white," but even the Arabs and Indians are not generally as dark as sub-Saharan Africans.
    • 4. Around 40KYA some of the people in western Asia migrated to eastern Asia. Their skin developed an off-white tint and they were called "mongoloid." Around 15KYA some of them migrated to the Americas, and the native Americans are also Mongoloid peoples. The fact that they don't have the epicanthic eye fold that most of us regard as the quintessential "Oriental" feature means that it's a very recent mutation that hadn't happened yet.
    By the standards of dog breeding, we are already all mongrels. The races disappeared long ago, when transportation technology made hybridization so easy and common.
     
  18. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, yes. So your entire argument consists of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "nyaahhh, I can't hear you!"

    You've also accused several members here, including myself, of bigotry simply because they claim that separate races do in fact exist.
    Quite an extension on your part.

    Take that MRI, and post the results. I would dearly love to see them.
    Signed and dated, please.
     
  19. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    I would say "Are disappearing" rather than "disappeared long ago", Fraggle, but otherwise good post.
     
  20. Yellow Jacket Registered Senior Member

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    Classifying race and your idea of racism disappearing are two totally different things you speak of.

    Racism in our century will not be gone. Maybe it is some theory of yours, but we are a long ways away from racism being gone. Perhaps you should step outside for awhile. Try telling that to my 11 year old that just received a racists beat down by a 17 year old 2 days ago, resulting in a broken nose and 7 stitches.

    Please forgive me if I come off annoyed or bitchy, I'm just really pissed off at what happened to him.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    I'm so sorry to hear that, and on behalf of the majority of the human race, I apologize. What was the ethnicity of the two parties, and in what country?

    I hope neither of you has lost your faith in humanity. There are places where it's the racists who get beaten up. Some municipal governments secretly enjoy giving parade permits to the Ku Klux Klan, so they can watch the bystanders throw things at them.
     
  22. Yellow Jacket Registered Senior Member

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    198
    Not so, way off. I will not resort to say the names the lighter skinned black people are called by many in the darker skinned community. Way off.

    In fact, lighter skinned people come across more problems than you think. They aren't fully accepted in the black community and not fully accepted in the white community either.
     
  23. Yellow Jacket Registered Senior Member

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    198
    Hmm, touchy thing. After seeing the racism on this forum, I prefer not to say exactly. In a round about way, I'll say I look white but am not a hundred percent white. My son also looks white, many though think he's italian or something because of the hue of his skin. Not even close, LOL. On those stupid forms you fill out, he can actually claim 3 different races. Too bad they didn't have gorgeous....he could just check that box, hehehe.

    The 17 year old was white. Told him he wasn't dark enough to be of that race of which my son also is (from his father's side), that my son needs to embrace his whiteness. Told him he couldn't wear the clothes he wears (ummm, skateboarder style. No idea what that had to do with his arguement of race, but that was one of the stupid things he said.)

    As far as some of the arguements on here, there is a breakdown of race one could say, because it poses one question. What race do you claim? I teach my children to embrace all aspects, races of who they are. But honestly, why does it matter? A person is a person, we all bleed, bruise, cry, eat, sleep, shit. No matter what race or color we are. In every race, etc. there are sweet, kind, smart people, and then we have our morons, idiots, jerks.

    Thanks for the apology, but none is needed. The 17 year old has to answer for his actions and thinking. Truthfully, his mother and I still speak. She is fed up with him and TOLD me she hopes I continue pressing charges. It shows you can raise your child a certain way, a good way, and they can still end up being completely opposite in the way you raised them. She is a good parent and I don't hold any malice or anger towards her. In fact, today, I will be having a conversation with her 17 year old on the whole race subject. Yeah, part of me wants to kill him. But, this is where I see education would be more effective.

    The country? The great grand melting pot, the United States.

    No, we haven't lost faith in humanity. THe only thing that is tripping me out is how seriously close, for the first time in my life, that I was to murdering a human being. A mother's emotional, maternal instincts, perhaps that Mother Lion type of thing is intense. Kind of messed with my head.
     

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